Using styrofoam
Printed From: Community Theater Green Room
Category: Producing Theater
Forum Name: Set Design and Construction
Forum Discription: Post your questions or suggestions about designing or building a set here.
URL: http://www.communitytheater.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2664
Printed Date: 5/14/24 at 1:45pm
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Topic: Using styrofoam
Posted By: pbuckley
Subject: Using styrofoam
Date Posted: 9/14/07 at 2:43pm
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I think that was posted before but I can't find it, so i'll ask again...
we are building some pieces in which we want to use styrofoam for our visible surface.
What type of styrofoam exactly do you use? How thick?
How big a sheet do they come in?
Can you attach them to vertical studs or do they have to be to a full, flat surface like plywood or luann?
Are there special devices to cut them to get curved surfaces? thanks for any advice you can give.
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Replies:
Posted By: MikeO
Date Posted: 9/14/07 at 6:48pm
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I think this is the one:
http://communitytheater.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=296&KW=fake+brick+wall&PN=1 - http://communitytheater.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=296&KW=fake+brick+wall&PN=1 ------------- I'd rather act, but they found out I can do tech & sets!! |
Posted By: pbuckley
Date Posted: 9/17/07 at 10:56am
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That was the original thread, yes - thanks. But a new question - how thick are the styrofoam sheets? The ones I've looked up seem to be no more than an inch thick. Also, are the sheets maleable? Can we curve them around a frame? And does the frame have to be a full flat surface or will vertical studs suffice? If you can answer any of these, that would be a great help. thanks  |
Posted By: Gaafa
Date Posted: 9/17/07 at 9:52pm
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They come in various thicjness to complete blocks. I think it would depend on how thin the sheet is for bendability. I'm not sure if on the previous posts, it mentioned the foam as being a fire hazard or not? But I think it was Joan who mentioned that it is an aceptable building product, if it is covered with fabric, Jesso style! Also the fabric like muslin/calico lends it's self to having fire retardant applied. there are also a number of sealants on the market, which are also fire retardant:- ------------- Joe Western Gondawandaland turn right @ Perth. Hear the light & see the sound. Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"} May you always play to a full house} |
Posted By: vickifrank
Date Posted: 9/23/07 at 9:04am
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First a warning. If you use white styrofoam, be careful of where you place it. If it gets kicked and part comes off, you get a white spot on your stage.
Second, you can cut it with knives, hot knives and a hot wire.
You need ventilation for your safety when cutting with heat.
For wall molding I used a hot wire technique. You find a soldering gun (not soldering iron). The guns have a wire type tip that conducts the heat. You replace the wire tip with any shape you want to cut, turn it on. With a jig to keep the foam sheet running at a even pace you feed the sheet in to melt it to shape.
You can also carve free form with serated knives, and do detail work with heated knives (heat the knives on a 5th burner that you intend to scrap afterwards--because it will be covered with a plastic residue. The knives will be scrap afterwards too.)
For a carved 3-d surface, like gargoyles for the witch's castle in OZ, you build a plywood surface to creat most of the 3-d effect. You glue thick 4" sheet s of the foam to the surface and cut with knives to get the biggest sections off. Then you can either paint the surface, or rag it. You rag it if it will see wear and tear--like carousel horses that actors ride on. Ragging is adding strips of fabric soaked in glue to the surface. Then you paint it.
The best styrofoam is thick, dense blue blocks. Which are more kick resistant, and hang together better. You can buy them at Lowes, Home Depot, etc.. where they are used for insulation. You can buy 4" x 4' x 8' sheets, or if you only need thin sheets you can buy 1/4" x 4' x 50' folded accordion style.
The thin can be bent, but not the thick.
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Posted By: drose
Date Posted: 9/23/07 at 3:32pm
| We covered a plywood fireplace form with 1 inch styro sheets that we salvaged from a door and window shop (they were used as packing insulation) and then carved (ok, gouged is a better description) the shape of stones into it and then melted the carved areas with a heat gun - just enough to soften the edges. Then we painted it and sponged some high/low lights. It sounds very work intensive, but it really wasnt. and we ended up with a gorgeous stone fireplace for our production of Cinderella. (We painted the stones in tones of pink, purple and grey, it was great!) |
Posted By: Gaafa
Date Posted: 9/23/07 at 11:09pm
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I'm too scared to use the stuff on stage, the alernatives may take a little longer, but worth the effort. I can't get rid of the stuff quick enough in any theatre I'm in. even when it is covered enabiling the it to be contained in a fire retardant over coat. For the life of me I can't see the reasoning why they akkow it as building materail. Yes I can - for what more important reason is there - money! there again look around any house or office it is stuffed with it. In theatre we go out of our way usualy, to ensure there is no possibilty of fire being started & some even go thru fire drills & the like regularly to know what to do, if & when it might happen. yet we muck about with a petrol product, which is one fires greatest fuel - Thick or what! Ut is not the fact it perpetuates it's own flame. as much as the toxic smoke that does the killing. I know I'm off again on another tangent! But I feel we become complacent & reassured thru any risk asessmnets that might be carried out & it is used on heaps of other productions. So it must be alright! I'm trying to knock anyone & those that use it. It is a great inovative product for stage sets/props & what did we ever do before it came along? But that's all another story! there was a bit of a wake up call in 2003, sure it was started with sparks from a pyro effect, handled badly. But if the venue had not used foam to cut down the niose of the rock'nroll bands & head bangers. As an upstage decorative wall covering & yes had adaquate exits. A disaster could have been avioded;- I'd suggest beyond the victims being trampled in the panic, all would have died from toxic fumes, smoke long before being burnt up. I think the average bod has only about 90 seconds, when being over taken by smoke, before they peg out completly. Even with fire retardant used, that all it does, retards the flames, not the smoke. It's something to consider in stage work at all times. Invarabily flames/smoke head up ito the cieling & Fly area first. If it is contained within the space, smoke especialy can travel as fast as a speeding bullet, along the cieling seeking areas to escape into the atmosphere. This is why large exhauste fans on the roof, above the stage these days, are the recomended method used, to suck out the smoke & almost everthing else not screwed down from the stage area. Fire supression systems, don't stop the smoke, only attempt to control & contain the fire. Which brought about the advent of the "fire Curtain' [aka Iron] being used on stage, because of the fire in the Theatre Royal Exeter back in the 1880's. Remember it only takes a spark? Alright I'll get off the bike, hadm'gob, have a cuppa, a smoke & a good lie down!  ------------- Joe Western Gondawandaland turn right @ Perth. Hear the light & see the sound. Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"} May you always play to a full house} |
Posted By: drose
Date Posted: 9/24/07 at 3:28am
| Wow. I'm kind of sickened by the danger we inadvertantly put our cast, crew, and audience in. Thank you, Joe, for the reminder. It's not a mistake I plan to make again. |
Posted By: pdavis69
Date Posted: 9/24/07 at 10:44am
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Dont be afraid to use syrofoam. It does not have to be burt to work or look nice. We use two inch thick blue styrofoam isulation sheets 2"x 4'x8'. After marking out your design on the sheet try using wire brushes to carve out between your blocks. I created an entire fieldstone barn and may fireplaces and stone walls with this stuff. You can also buy wire wheels that attach to a drill gun to make the work quicker. Once carved and painted you get a wonderful faux wall that looks just great and is light enough to be moved easily. We either attache the sheets to a 2"x2" frame or screw directly onto flats. ------------- Patrick L. Davis Fort Findlay Playhouse |
Posted By: drose
Date Posted: 9/24/07 at 1:52pm
| I think I'm equally worried about just having it onstage/backstage at all. I try to be very safety conscious about what could pose a danger and knowing how volatile and toxic styro is, I am concerned about it being onstage in the (god forbid) event of a fire. A fire is bad enough, but killing people with toxic fumes I could have prevented. Really bad. I don't use synthetic-in-the-event-of-a-fire-will-release-cyanide-fumes bedding in my home for the same reasons. I don't know. I need to do some research about this. |
Posted By: Gaafa
Date Posted: 9/24/07 at 9:59pm
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I worked as an fire engineer/sparky, for a lot of years, as a day job - in a previous life. {Yeh I've done lot of things whilst being in theatre - except window cleaning!  }sorry if my comments might upset a lot of mise en scene articaphers & others? I know theatre has to be one of the most dangerious places there is, by it's nature, & we do it in the dark. We don't have as many accidents & disasters as we should have, especialy in ameatres, considering the attitude of a lot of grops & individual chancers working in it.  I doubt it is some mythical patron saint or other, looking after us? But more we tend to idiot check, unknowingly, even with a lack of experiance or just plain dumb lucky in most cases? But it does get right up my nose, when the powers that be in theatre groups & venues.  wave off or cover up. Warnings of potental dangers
& hide near accident situations that pop up from time to time. ------------- Joe Western Gondawandaland turn right @ Perth. Hear the light & see the sound. Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"} May you always play to a full house} |
Posted By: pdavis69
Date Posted: 9/25/07 at 9:29am
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Ok I need an austrailian dictionary. Articaphers? Ameatres? I understand the concern about fumes and by no means meant to lessen the concern of your warnings. I understand the law and the court system (my day job) but perhaps I am missing something that a fire expert can explain. If this syrofoam blueboard isulation is so dangerous to work with, why is it rapidly relacing fiberglass isulation in the building of new homes? We don't melt the foam when carving it so we don't get the fumes. Is it still that dangerous or only when lit on fire? ------------- Patrick L. Davis Fort Findlay Playhouse |
Posted By: Gaafa
Date Posted: 9/25/07 at 10:08pm
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Articapher = Articifer-grapher Ameatre = Amature Theatre Comeatre = community Theatre Gymeatre = Gym / Theatre [Theanasium] Theatorium= Theatre / Auditorium Just a play about with words. with the Dow Blue Styrofoam the only difference besides it being a dence poly structure, it has a higher melting piont & yes it will ignite with direct flame. with buildings & heat/cold insulation the material it great & is recomened for it to be encapsulated, primarily to guard against mechanical damage & naked flames. In a lot of cases they use aluminium as the protective sheeting. In it's self this is fine, but the Ali metal does burn well, as is seen in Airoplane fires. Again it is all cost driven, especialy in the building industry. Which was proved by the twin towers, melting core steal structure, as aposed to the concrete core method of high rise building. I'm far from being a fire expert, as I was only a fire electrician { I was going to say a 'Fire Sparky'?  ]But any of these petroleum poly products are just fire fuel in it's sold form. {Off toic again!] I remember going toe to toe with a coffee Machine Companies Chief Engineer for many months. Over his insistance that the ABS plastic used for the body of the machine, was fire proof &/or retardant. The argument got down to the molecular migration structure of the surface area & beyond. It wasn't settled untill I jumped on a plane & fronted him up at his office. After pleasantries were exchanged & we stat down with a cup of coffee. I produced a piece of ABS plastic from a machine cover plate, out my pocket. With a cigarette lighter I set fire to it & chucked the burning plastic in an ashtray on his desk. He stood up with his mouth wide open in amazement. I suggested he close his gob because of the toxic fumes & placed the coffee cup & saucer over the ashtray & smothered it. feeling quite chuffed, I thanked him, & then headed for the aurport & leave the State for home. I paid for my escapade latter with the reams of data reports from his office. The main thrust of them was the fact I had applied direct flame & this would not happen in nornal circustances? I just sent a letter advising if he could make arangements to have a machine available. I could be there in less than two days to conduct a demonstration? I never heard from him & no further corespondence was entertered into, even though my family is a sept of his Clan! I didn't try to be a smart arse? but it all came about because we had a fire investigation report. which sited this particular model of beverage machine, as the fire source, resulted in a fire at a factory office in a suburb of the City. I did note they changed the wording of thier promotional material about the MacHines from then on. [Back on topic] So yes I'd say the blue stuff is 'dangerous only when lit by fire'. I must try & get some 'blue stuff' & see how it reacts! ------------- Joe Western Gondawandaland turn right @ Perth. Hear the light & see the sound. Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"} May you always play to a full house} |
Posted By: pdavis69
Date Posted: 9/26/07 at 7:41am
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Thanks for the definitions and the explanation. Now I'm afaid to build a set with anything but concrete and I don't think my old theatre building will support the weight. ------------- Patrick L. Davis Fort Findlay Playhouse |
Posted By: Gaafa
Date Posted: 9/26/07 at 10:01am
Just think back Patrick'- 'What did we do before styrofoam'   Which is probably as difficult a question as;- 'What did we do before gaffer tape' ------------- Joe Western Gondawandaland turn right @ Perth. Hear the light & see the sound. Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"} May you always play to a full house} |
Posted By: pdavis69
Date Posted: 9/26/07 at 1:50pm
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I used wood, however I believe that's flamable too. ------------- Patrick L. Davis Fort Findlay Playhouse |
Posted By: drose
Date Posted: 9/26/07 at 5:03pm
| I don't really think purely flammable is the issue. Styro as a petroleum product may be an accelerant, and almost more importantly, it gives off toxic fumes when burnt. (Not that I believe woodsmoke is somehow healthy, but it's not the same thing). I'm sure there is no "perfect answer", and just walking outside can be hazardous to your health - you could get hit by a run away bus - but it is important to prioritize our hazards and avoid the ones we realistically can. To each his own...but I plan to avoid using styrofoam at the theatre...and handily enough, I set our theatre policies! |
Posted By: Gaafa
Date Posted: 9/26/07 at 9:53pm
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Ah! the old 'Scout' [Gilwell Leader Trianing] Woodbadge (beads 'n
bootlace) motto by kippling I think? "He who hath smelt wood smoke". I think you hit the nail on the head drose! 'Accelerant'. ------------- Joe Western Gondawandaland turn right @ Perth. Hear the light & see the sound. Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"} May you always play to a full house} |
Posted By: sm41478
Date Posted: 10/06/07 at 9:25pm
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Hello all, this is my first post. I am doing brick for Urinetown and wanted to see other people's ways to do bricks. I think the best way for the look far or near is the following: ( I hope this helps)
I like the insulation from home depot or lowes. It comes in 4x8 sheets and is usually in a pink or blue color. I see others who use this, but I have some special ways to cut it. If you are doing brick with very straight grout lines then of course use a hot iron or a table saw at a short setting. but for more rounded edges use a brush and paint the lines over with Acetone. It works great and burns right through without the burning smell of the iron. I also like to put some in a spray bottle to give the bricks the realistic pitted effect. I hope you find this helpful.
SR
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Posted By: MartyW
Date Posted: 10/08/07 at 11:48am
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If you have a good faux painter (as we are blessed with) painted brick on laun can have them touching the walls to see if its real.. Now on stone on stone.. then I really like routed out foam board... ------------- Marty W "Till next we trod the boards.." |
Posted By: jungle16jim
Date Posted: 7/22/08 at 6:47pm
| When I built Brigadoon, l lucked into finding some discarded styrofoam that had been used to float houseboats or docks on. Because it had been left outside, it was very rough and great for the rocky hills. I actually painted rock walls which looked right by comparison. But check out local docks to see if you can find any of this stuff. The biggest bits were 4ft square and about 1 1/2 ft deep. I've used them several times since then. They were heavy at first because of the water that had gotten logged in them, but they've dried out over the years. |