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Does this seem unfair to anyone else??

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Topic: Does this seem unfair to anyone else??
Posted By: theaterbrat
Subject: Does this seem unfair to anyone else??
Date Posted: 10/08/05 at 9:29am
Does this not seem right to anyone else?? I auditioned for a
play, and I didn't get a part at all (Part A) , but they had to move
the girl from Part A to another part (Part B), so instead of getting
me to play Part A, they got a girl that didn't even audition, and
doesn't want to be in the play. So is this not really really
screwed up or is it just me?? Does anyone think I have the right
to be mad??? Because I am.



Replies:
Posted By: DWolfman
Date Posted: 10/08/05 at 11:07am

You have my sympathy and empathy. The same thing has happened to me (as far as losing a part to someone who didn't even audition, although I did get another part in the show).

I did stay with the show, however, met some wonderful people, got a good response with the part I did play, and even enjoyed the audience's response to the role and the wonderful lines I got to deliver.

Welcome to the wacky world of theatre where a director's whims and wheedlings sometimes are a burden to bear.  While the aforementioned play made me very cautious when working with that director (which we have done many times since, often with great results), I've got some good memories, lessons, and contacts from the experience.

Now you know why actors have to have thick skins, and must try constantly not to have thick heads.

Enjoy and  survive.



-------------
Even a man who is pure of heart...


Posted By: theaterbrat
Date Posted: 10/08/05 at 4:07pm
Well it wouldn't be that bad if I didn't have to go see my Dad in
it, and hear him talk about it all the time.


Posted By: Dustmac
Date Posted: 10/09/05 at 10:55pm
You definitely have my sympathy as well. I hate to say it but it makes me wonder what the director's rationale is?


Posted By: Gaafa
Date Posted: 10/10/05 at 12:27am
Hang in there!
Some of the best parts I ever got was because I was there at the time.
This is community theatre & things happen & change instantly.
Go with your Dad & even assist with him with his lines, learn the script & rehearse all the parts in front of the mirror at home on your own.
.Get to know the script & as much about the production as you can.
If nothing else you will have this up your sleeve & it may come in handy latter at some time or other.
I don't mean for you to hang about like a bad smell, find something usfull to do!
Even when the show is on the boards, anything can happen & usually does!
With bods not turning up or leaving the show, because they have been offered a better part.
I remember in a production of the King & I, I was contacted at work during the day & asked if I could play  Lun Tha for that nights performance, because the guy had developed a throat infection.
I knew the show only because I had designed the set, but had never took much notice of the individual roles.
I did the part, which was mainly only one major song a few lines & a small dance, but I ended up playing it for the rest of the season.
Don?t spit the dummy because you were over looked, as one door closes another may open unexpectedly!



-------------
      Joe
Western Gondawandaland
turn right @ Perth.
Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}



Posted By: Tyunglebo
Date Posted: 10/27/05 at 5:11pm

Very unfair and totally innappropriate for a community theatre production.

There are far too many people out there that behave in community theatre as though it were professional theatre. (I would imagine most who are guilty of this are those who are bitter that they never made it professional.) There is a reason why it is called community theatre, and pre-casting really should not take place unless there are literally not enough people auditioning to cover every role in the play being produced.



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Posted By: tristanrobin
Date Posted: 10/27/05 at 9:33pm
:-)

I totally 100% disagree.

There is nothing in the world wrong with pre-casting IMO.

It gets ugly when the director doesn't inform those auditioning that
pre-cast roles are unavailable - and people are auditioning for roles
that essentially do not exist. That's really mean and not very fair.

But, i've precasted shows - heck - I've CHOSEN shows because of a
certain actor or actress or combination of actors. I don't see
anything wrong with it at all.

Different strokes. :-)

However, theatrebrat has my sympathies - as often as we get passed
over in the theatre, it's never an easy pill to swallow!


Posted By: Tyunglebo
Date Posted: 10/28/05 at 12:11am

Different strokes indeed.

There is something very improper with pre-casting in the community level, if you bother having auditions at all. It is in very bad form, and shows no desire to be truly community based. If people want to cast their friends and such, they really should foot the bill themselves and rent a hall. Otherwise, why put on the charade to call it community theatre? What community, other than the director's personal circle, is being served by that?

That to me is no different than announcing community theatre auditions, and casting a show, only to provide free meals to the person with the most lines, at the expense of the theatre, or something like that. It is pandering and catering, and it should not be done. People pay money to see community based actors on the stage, not to see who the favorites of John Q. Director are, without giving anyone else a shot.

Those are the sort of things, it seems to me, that turn people away from trying theatre. They know they can never see their name in lights in New York or something, and yet they get treated just as much like a piece of garbage in Sioux City, Iowa, or whatever community theatre area it happens to be.

Announce your intentions from the beginning, at the amateur level. If you do not, and let people audition, you do not have any respect for the community part of the "community theatre."

Community theatre should be equitable, or it just should not call itself such.



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Posted By: Gaafa
Date Posted: 10/28/05 at 2:41am
Originally posted by tristanrobin

:-)
It gets ugly when the director doesn't inform those auditioning that
pre-cast roles are unavailable - and people are auditioning for roles
that essentially do not exist. That's really mean and not very fair.


I always precast in my head, but end up recasting in fact.
As I?m always pleasantly surprised by those that turn up for the audition!
From what I have read of the posts, it seams to me, you may have missed tristanrobin point.
Any &/or most directors in community theatre, would probably choose a particular productions with certain performers in mind!
Where it does become a major problem, is when there is not a level playing field, for all those who audition.



-------------
      Joe
Western Gondawandaland
turn right @ Perth.
Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}



Posted By: Tyunglebo
Date Posted: 10/28/05 at 3:05am

Granted.



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Posted By: tristanrobin
Date Posted: 10/28/05 at 8:44am
Originally posted by Tyunglebo

Different strokes indeed.


There is something very improper with pre-casting in the
community level, if you bother having auditions at all.

Announce your intentions from the beginning, at the amateur
level. If you do not, and let people audition, you do not have any
respect for the community part of the "community theatre."


Community theatre should be equitable, or it just should not call
itself such.



a) I think if you re-read my post, that is exactly what I said.
b) please - please - do not tell me I have no respect for community
theatre. For you to make such an outrageous claim would make me
lose all respect for you and/or your opinons.
c) you have an opinion (a rather narrow-view pointed one, IMO) and I
have a different one. One is no more or less valid than another. You
should be careful with the way you word responses - one would
almost think someone had died and left you the community theatre
rules and regs god.

"What community, other than the director's personal circle, is being
served by that?"

Are you suggesting that you are going to be the one who decrees
what 'community' both means and needs serving?!


"People pay money to see community based actors on the stage, not
to see who the favorites of John Q. Director are, without giving
anyone else a shot."

Once again, I think you're are being presumptuous. You can certainly
opine why your audiences pay money to sit in your theatre - you can
have no possible way of knowing why people pay money to sit in
other theatres. Not all community theatres are an excuse for
something to do when the bowling league ends for the year. There
are many community theatres that rival professional regional
theatres in production quality...and, trust me, those audiences pay
and are there for engrossing theatre - no other reason.

I certainly don't mind/don't care the rules that you set and/or abide
by in your community theatre. But LOL you really have no right to
decide for other theatres how they should conduct audition
processes and to adjudicate whether or not they have 'respect' for
community theatre. LOL


Posted By: POB14
Date Posted: 10/28/05 at 10:19am

The OP didn't say one word about precasting.  That's another topic.

Consider that Theatrebrat, no matter how talented she is, may have been simply wrong for the role, at least as the director envisions it.

Ty, haven't you ever heard one of the most famous phrases in the theatre?  Namely:

"That was the best audition we'll ever see for that role.  Too bad we can't use her."

Are you suggesting that the people who audition should be cast, regardless of their talent, availability, suitability for the role, and so on?

For example:

Our local theatre is doing A Few Good Men right now.  Let's say that I had auditioned for Kaffee.  Some other guy gets cast.  Now, for reasons beyond everyone's control, they have to move him over to play Sam.  Should I automatically be cast as Kaffee?  Would it change your mind if I mentioned that I'm about 20 years too old and at least 75 pounds too heavy to even be considered for the role?  Should the director cast me, just because I auditioned (and I guarantee, I would give a great audition for the role!), or should he look outside the auditions for somebody who could actually be accepted by the audience in the role?

What if I audition for the lead in Fences?  I'm a bit too white to pull that one off.

I understand the concern that the community (of actors) be served by the company.  However, I think the director's responsibility, primarily, is to present the play as best he can.  The director in the OP must have felt s/he couldn't do that with Theatrebrat in Role A.  Now, s/he might be right, or might be wrong.  But I don't think it's inherently wrong to cast someone who didn't audition in preference to someone who did.

Yes, someone who auditions gets points for wanting to do the show.

No, that shouldn't be the only factor.



-------------
POB
Old Bugger, Curmudgeon, and Antisocial B**tard


Posted By: POB14
Date Posted: 10/28/05 at 10:20am

PS to Theatrebrat:

I do feel bad for you.  I would be mad too.  I have no idea if you're right or wrong for the role; I'm just discussing generalities here.

You'll get 'em next time, kid.



-------------
POB
Old Bugger, Curmudgeon, and Antisocial B**tard


Posted By: Shatcher
Date Posted: 10/28/05 at 10:27am
[QUOTE=Tyunglebo]

There are far too many people out there that behave in community theatre as though it were professional theatre. (I would imagine most who are guilty of this are those who are bitter that they never made it professional.)

Why should we not behave as though it were professional theatre? Shouldn't we strive to make great art reguardless of the venue? If this means pre casting a role or two whats the harm as long as everyone knows what parts are open? And to sugesst that because I act like a professional (and expct the same from my cast and crew) that I am bitter that I never went professional is just dumb. their are many community theatre artist who could have gone pro but for one reason or another did not.(maybe actors feel differently) I have seen just as much bad theatre at the pro level as at the community level.  And in pro theatre you can bet they pre cast. Making great art is what theatre is about!!


Posted By: falstaff29
Date Posted: 10/28/05 at 1:41pm

I second Shatcher's comments.

Just because a theater's professional doesn't mean they automatically produce great works.  I've seen some truly wretched professional productions, and I've seen (and occasionally been involved with) some community productions that were truly inspiring and brought an impressive new life to a script.

I've been in the situation as a director where I had to replace someone during rehearsals, and I've always gone with the person who could pick up the role the best.  Sometimes it's been a matter of "promoting" a cast member or auditionee, but sometimes I've gone to someone who, for one reason or another, didn't audition, but was the best actor available to me.  It's a nice concept in theory to "give everyone a chance," but it's a much nicer concept in practice to have a great show.



Posted By: tristanrobin
Date Posted: 10/28/05 at 2:12pm
Originally posted by Shatcher


Making great art is what theatre is about!!



   


Posted By: Shatcher
Date Posted: 10/28/05 at 2:35pm

tristanrobin: I knew there was a reason I liked you!!!

Heres to great art! after all what make a theatre pro? because they pay people? Money isn't everything...it helps but no true artist(of any type) is in it for the money...if they are...is it the $$ they love or the Art? For me its gotta be the art, sometimes there isn't enough $$ in the world to make up for the blood sweat and tears I put in, but somehow the roar of the opening night crowd is always enough!



Posted By: Gaafa
Date Posted: 10/28/05 at 4:41pm
There is only one measurable difference between
the Pro & the Am -  That?s the Dollar!

-------------
      Joe
Western Gondawandaland
turn right @ Perth.
Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}



Posted By: tristanrobin
Date Posted: 10/28/05 at 5:11pm
Originally posted by Shatcher

For me its gotta be the art, sometimes there isn't
enough $$ in the world to make up for the blood sweat and tears I
put in, but somehow the roar of the opening night crowd is always
enough!



and...another standing

I couldn't agree more. I *do* get paid for what I do - but damned
little LOL - and if I were in it for the bucks, I would be a very grumpy
camper. LOL


Posted By: MartyW
Date Posted: 10/31/05 at 8:53am

Wow.... Great post.. Wish you guys hadn't used up all the really good stuff already.. But seriously, like gaffa said, you always precast in your head.  You would be a fool not to. IMHO a board or play reading committee would be crazy not to do a little of that brand of mental math before selecting a show. i.e. "Do we have "THAT" kind of actor avaiable.  Heck, I can't even read a book or play for pleasure without casting it in my head.. But I think the important thing, as many have already mentioned, is to keep an open mind for the talent that walks through the door. Yet again POB14's quote (which I have never heard but will definitely be using in the future) puts in all in perspective.

We have no idea what "math" was being used to make these decisions. And there are always so many variables.  i.e. "Does that group really look like a family.." "Gee that part demands a thin person (fat can be faked)" "Ohhh my god, look at the conflict sheet".. Or in fact, the person may not even have auditioned well. Or may have a history in reliability problems..

Now in no way am I implying any or all of these to be the case in the opening of this post.. But there is no way for us to fathom the director?s mind in a particular case..  And yes, I get way ticked when I think I was better for a part or get bumped by a ringer... But that too is part of the game..

Bottom line that one hopes for in all productions is that the director is ultimately doing what he/she thinks is in the best interest of a quality show.

 



-------------
Marty W

"Till next we trod the boards.."



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