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Lights and Sound
 Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board :Producing Theater :Lights and Sound
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jayzehr
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bullet Posted: 3/25/08 at 2:20am
That's a great story! I had a very strange out of body experience on stage myself once. I wonder how many people this sort of thing happens to?
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landon2006
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bullet Posted: 3/25/08 at 2:24am
I have used boundary mics several times.  I don't dislike them, but I have some issues with them. Since all of our upcoming shows will be musicals with dancing, etc we are concerned about picking up the hard foot steps on the stage as well as the Orchestra. Also, the last time I used them, I had issues where the actors kept falling out of range every time they would turn while singing or walked away from the edge of the stage.

I had considered not using mics. But Proscenium Theaters are hard to project your voice in unless properly trained to do so. The Theater we use only has 500 seats, and the back of the house is probably no more than 50 feet from the stage... However, the stage is designed in such a way that the acoustics are pretty bad when trying to get your voice from one side of the proscenium to the other.

I'm sure that we will have to use some kind of mike system, and I really like the idea of each person having their own mike, but I mainly want the sound to be of the highest quality possible. I have been trying to find out how they do it in professional Theater, but can't really find much information about it.

To me, sound is probably the most important things. I can put up with less than great acting and singing... But only if I can actually hear it. I would rather use the Wireless because in the end, it's going to provide better sound than just mic's on the stage, with less interference and range problems. In the end, it might be more work to get it to work, but when it does work, I'm sure it will be worth the extra but of prep time and backstage help.

PS) I just found a type of mic called Crown PCC-160... Has any ever used these? How well do they work?

Thanks!




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jayzehr
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bullet Posted: 3/25/08 at 4:21am
Originally posted by landon2006


But Proscenium Theaters are hard to project your voice in unless properly trained to do so.


I think you're wrong about that. A properly designed proscenium theater helps maximize projection.
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landon2006
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bullet Posted: 3/25/08 at 6:14am
Really?  Since the area entering the audience is small than the stage itself, a great deal of sound is naturally going to be lost in the fly space & wings.

Of course, if you have a Proscenium Theater that is designed good, with sound bouncers installed that help deflect sound from those unwanted areas into the audience, then great. Thats NOT the case at the Theater we use.

Also, if we decide to do our shows at the IU Auditorium (3,157 seats), then some sort of Mic system is going to be required for all actors, as projection would be not impossible, but difficult for all but the most trained actors, which we usually don't have access too.

Thats from my experience anyway. Maybe I'm wrong though.
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jayzehr
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bullet Posted: 3/25/08 at 7:52am
Just out of curiosity, Landon, how did you handle sound when you directed Annie before?
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JoeMc
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bullet Posted: 3/25/08 at 7:59am
Not being a niose waller, i can't realy help with type of mike you found.
All I know is all venues are different & have their own individual audio quirks & conditions.
I have found proscenium stages can be very much like an outdoor music shell. Also dependant upon the auditorium material used in the fabric of the walls, wether the sounds bounces or not.
Some of the older Edwardian theatres have the good old dead spots, usualy in th Stalls, while up in the Gods is generaly the better area to hear a show, visualy not so go though. A lot of the Pidgeon Holes & Juliets [ashtrays] usualy have a lot of audio & visual problems. There again they were never designed so much to see or hear the show, but for one to be seen at the show & indulge in the royal wave & whatever?
A few of the more moden venues, where the architec has used an acoustic engineer [which is a rarety] are very good, without reinforcement.
But they tend to do a short cut & instal a heap of audio arrays to compensate.
Normally I check out the acoustics in a space by standing centre stage & giving loud claps. This usualy will tell if the rear house wall bounces or absorbes the niose. Sound bounce is a drama & absorbtion is a good sign.
This is done with all boards, legs & cyc in or with a full set on deck & fly pack.
Not very sientific, but a good rule of the black thumb nail!
Also things that can be done in auditoriums or comeatres is to hang house clouds {[suspended cieling panels], either flat or on an angle], drapes around the walls or walls of wooden strip decorative battens.
surprisingly enough sound from the stage is not lost that much into the fly loft, unless it is empty of course., which is rare.
Normally a pit orchestra will not drown out vocalists, because the sound sorce is below the stage level & controlled by a Conductor. One of the biggest hiccups is for those on stage, untill they have some experiance being acompanied by a full orchestra.
this is one of the advantages of a procenium stage,the pit is not a wall of sound to get thru. 
Jay the OoBE might make a good topic?
I for one think it is a myth & I'm a little sceptical & think it is all rather a bit of 'my eye & mary martin. Although I do weird things by following theatre superstitions at times.
I'm sure people have had such things, but I don't believe I have actualy had them, just I must have been' & actualy off in a day dream. Which now at my age I can put down to a seniors moment! Wink 
  
  
[western] Gondawandaland
"Hear the light & see the sound!
TOI TOI CHOOKAS
{may you always play to a full house!}
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jayzehr
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bullet Posted: 3/25/08 at 2:27pm
Well, I'm not a "noise waller" either Just going by fuzzy college memories. I guess I should rephrase that: when one says "proscenium theaters are hard to project your voice in" my question is "compared to what"? Doesn't a proscenium theater in general allow for the greatest distance from stage to audience?
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landon2006
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bullet Posted: 3/25/08 at 4:03pm
In the Community Theater I came from before starting this one, we used various different ways of getting sound. The last time I directed Annie (1 1/2 years ago) we used a mixture of Floor mics & Hanging mics (with major issues on actors going out of range). The other time I directed Annie (I've directed it twice) we didn't use any mics. HOWEVER, the "Theater" we were using then did not need mics, because it was so small (It was not really a Theater even). On Several other occasions we just used Floor mics (not the ones designed for such, just regular mics mounted on the floor), with very poor results.

The reason I'm so concerned about sound now is that I have never worked in a Theater as large as what we are probably going to be working in.

PS) The Orchestra "Pit", is not really a pit. The stage is elevated 3 foot and the "Orchestra Area" sits at the base of the stage, at the same level as the audience. Which I think is a pretty poor design, but thats just me.

We might still get to use the larger Theater though... I have meeting with them in a few weeks to see what we can work out. In which case we upgrade from the current 33' W x 16' D x 20' H Pros. with an 8' Fly space and no real orchestra pit to a fully equipped Theater with full Fly space, 100' Wide stage (55' within proscenium) which is also 40' D and 25' H at the Proscenium. Not to mention, they have a REAL orchestra pit.

Thanks
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JoeMc
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bullet Posted: 3/26/08 at 7:05pm

I have always found proscenium arch stages are acoustical better than these converted gymeatres or theatoriums, they put up.

Our comeatre which was built in 1925, as a war memorial community hall. Had great acoustic qualities although it was built by volunteers on a disused lime stone quarry & kiln.
it was amazing as it only took them 3 years, even though they had to use only muscle power & horses, to drag the building materials thru the sand dunes, no roads as such.
Yet with all the modern machines & technology it has taken longer to refurbish it.
The auditorium ceiling was in fact covered in carpet, with the backing stuck to the plater sheets. Also  the rear wall was done in hand made clay bricks.
Now the architect has gyp rocked the wall & treated the ceiling, stuffing up the acoustics & painting the auditorium in an ivory colour, which won't help lighting shows.
Here is a pick of what it looked like, before they messed about with it;-
 
http://www.phoenixtheatre.websyte.com.au/site.cfm?/phoenixtheatre/4/
They have retained the original hall, which was only the width of the portico on the front. Knocking down the extensions, built by the council back in the 40's.
Now it is finished, it  looks like 'Lego land'l As it has a round 100 square metre, art gallery, stuck on to the hall. that we have dubbed the' water tank'. Also with 3 square block buildings at the rear, which are the dressing & green rooms. all these satellite extra buildings are painted in different primary colours of red, blue & yellow.
Sure enough he left the plaster ceiling over the stage & refuses to remove it. stating it is 'Heritage', as I told him it can't be Heritage listed until 2025, so we have got about 7 years to remove it.
But it is a waste of time talking to him, we have nick named him the 'Dafto'dill -Lilly Man', after Bunthorne from G&S 'Patience', as he gives me a mental picture of him prancing about the lawns, with his ladies of the acetic movement.
we can't wait to re-modify it into a workable space again.
 
 
 
[western] Gondawandaland
"Hear the light & see the sound!
TOI TOI CHOOKAS
{may you always play to a full house!}
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JoeMc
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bullet Posted: 3/28/08 at 10:54am

There is a point you will have to consider - Consumables!

You will probably use a 9 volt batteries per radio mike/performance. So see if you can do a promo deal with a battery distributor? Don't rely on the venue, as they will charge you possibly more than the normal retail price. Stay away from discount shops generic batteries in a pack. Always use a fresh battery/performance, which includes Dress & tech runs.

Also check out the venue hire/rental agreement for incidental charges for performance extras, such as special colour gel usage or whatever.
Further find an experienced SM &/or PM, along with your own Lighting/audio designer/techie, to do all the technical planning, along with supervision of the Bump In/Out.
Use an order system for everything to with the production & venue, with the usual disclaimers & riders, such as 'no order - no pay' provisions. In fact get a good admin manager & don't attempt to handle it your self.
One of the biggest & contentious problems when dealing with a Rent House venue, is what you the group gets, after the venue takes their charges, fees & loadings. Out of the box returns before they write the groups cheque, at the wash up!
Avoid doing any private treaty, with the in house techies, to design the audio &/or Lighting. Invariably you will wind up with, is not not much more than the bog standard venue EQ & a the basic 4 colour wash lighting rig, with a few specials thrown in. Which your paying for in the venue hire anyway! They will also charge the production for returning the space back to it's standard rig, which in my experience never happens.
But these are some of the lurks & perks they get up to, if your group is not on their metal.
Remember they have the whip hand, because they hold on to the money, usually from 7 to 30 days, after the season.
However the group can with a number of venues, get an advance, usually up to 10% of the box office after a performance, under certain conditions. So get an Accountant on board as well!
Remember this game, by decree, is fraught with rouges & vagabonds.Shocked
 
[western] Gondawandaland
"Hear the light & see the sound!
TOI TOI CHOOKAS
{may you always play to a full house!}
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