Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin
Set Design and Construction
 Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board :Producing Theater :Set Design and Construction
Message Icon Topic: another newbie needs help with set construction(Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post Reply Post New Topic
Page  of 2 Next >>
Author Message
Kim L.
Star
Star


Joined: 2/03/07
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 86
bullet Topic: another newbie needs help with set construction
    Posted: 8/21/07 at 3:43pm
I am the Technical Director for our home school co-op high school drama class. We will be producing Little Women in December. I have finalized the set for our play (thank God!). I will be using a permanent set (I think that's the right term) to depict the March Family living room. The living room will be constructed out of flats which will be approximately 26 ft. wide and about 12 ft. deep, with three doorways and a window seat. We will be renting a theatre in the community and I will only have access to it 2 days before the performance.

Now, here are my questions (and forgive me for the amateurish nature of them!):
1. When I butt two flats together to form the long walls and such, I have read that I am supposed to dutchmen them to make the long walls seamless. Since I am constructing the set off-site from the theatre, how do I go about this? Do I really need to dutchmen them? If so, could I paint the walls and then dutchmen them 2 days before the performance? How long does it take dutchmen to dry?

2. I have read about this pin/hinge method for joining flats. Is that enough or do I also have to nail a piece of wood from one flat to another? I forget the technical name I saw for this.

3. Do theatres generally allow you to nail things into their stages for bracing?

Thanks for the help!!

Kim
Kim
IP IP Logged
Gaafa
Celebrity
Celebrity
Avatar

Joined: 3/21/04
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1181
bullet Posted: 8/22/07 at 6:48am
G'day Kim.
#1 Yes it is good to utalise a datchman, however I doubt you would have time or be allowed by the theatre to piant & use them, especialy with a 2 day bump in & the need to focus, set lighting, dress the set & have a 'tech' & 'Dress' rehearsals.
I assume you are making the flats, are they 'soft' or 'TV' flats?
if so ensure they are square & fitt together neatly & not like a dogs hind leg!
I preffer when jioning flats together, to lash them up with sash & cleats. Whith soft flats this especial good , because when you wish to strike them on bump out. Just unlash them & let them fall & float down to the stage.
But using the loose pin hinges is equaly as good.
However with the sash cord you can pull the flats into square, with extra purchase.
[The sash is attached to the head rail of one flat & run across to a cleat or purchase scew in the next flat & serpantined between the two flats stile rails & cleated off at the tail rail.
#2 You would only need a 'Ledger' to hold the wall flat & reduce the waving. However if you design the walls with step in or out alcoves & book the flats. This will help & support the box set better. Which also helps with bracing, especialy for the door flats & I guess the window seat would set into a bay window.
Use either the adjustable 'stage braces' or 'FRENCH braces' [which are wing hinged on & fold out].
The theatre may not allow you to put stage screws in the deck, in which case 'sandbags or scene weights are used.
But check with the venue to see if they have braces & weights avalable.
Here is some of the hardware they could have in stock & is available to help you.
 
 
 Sand Bags
 
 
 'French brace' [at the bottom of page]
http://www.kave.co.uk/Kave_New/sales/scenery.htm

I hope this helps?



      Joe
Western Gondawandaland
turn right @ Perth.
Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}

IP IP Logged
Ken W
Walk-On
Walk-On
Avatar

Joined: 3/22/06
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 0
bullet Posted: 8/22/07 at 11:21pm
Gaafa is the pro, but I have always used the loose pin hinge, 3 to a flat, and many snadbags on the braces for the flats.  The stages we use don't allow fastening to the stage, and I brace the flats with triangles and weight them with sandbags.  not real stable, but good enough for a show or two.
IP IP Logged
Gaafa
Celebrity
Celebrity
Avatar

Joined: 3/21/04
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1181
bullet Posted: 8/23/07 at 1:19am
Originally posted by Ken W

Gaafa is the pro,

Sadly Ken too many smokes & coffees have put pay to that. It has been a long time since I have solicited myself & had my palms crossed with silver.
When I used to produce flats I would always set them up for loose pin flap hinges, useing a template to standardise the hinges [Hinge halves on a piece of timber to ensure they are all the same, after putting the skin on] Also with the pins, tieing them  to a cord & attaching it under the hinge half held by the screw, helps to ensure it was always on hand & also painting the grip of the pin white. However being long in the tooth I preffer to still use the sash & cleat as well.
The hinges are not cheap, but well worth the outlay.
However with the bracing, booked flats & placed on angles to the others, will stable the set. Also reduce the need for dutchmans being used, employing corners, nooks & cannies into your design, ]The Edwardians along with Victorians, loved their nooks to break up a straight wall.
You may need to mask behind the jionts, any strip of black tatt will do, to mask light & any movement from behind the flats [gaffer & other tapes have a white or grey sticky side].
Aviod nailing anything that would have to be denailed during Bump out, because it rarely happens & only become a wepon to inflict harm latter. Use Tek screws that can be removed with a battery drill or gun, the luvvies [warm props] love to play about with tek guns!
As I mentioned check with the venue, I'm sure they will have braces & a lot of hardware you can borrow or even half inch, with their aproval?

as it's your first time & before your deflowered!
A few other things going into a venue, especialy a pro house. Try & ensure your are as self contained as possible, regarding consumables like gaffer tape & the like. A lot of groups tend to forget about the extras that can be addded to the final bill.
Either yourself or the stage manager set up one of those generic 'Order Books', so when there is any consumales used or extention to the orignal hire contract, ensure the venue needs an authorised order number, to be able to get paid.
Also watch out falling into the trap of paying for things like a lighting design. Inevertably all you get is a standard rig wash & a few specials - which is thier normal standard rig anyway.
Further work out all you needs as dictated by the script for cues & changes before hand {[5 P's 'Pre Planning Prevents P*ss Poor Production]} Because time is money - so put a meter on it!
Get yourself a 'white board' & list all the jobs for the Bump In/Out & cross them off upon completion.
Marshal your mob to move in the venue quickly & focused on the job in hand, use a few chosen parents or ASM's to orginise them, especial the cast to stay off the stage, unless invited to do so.




      Joe
Western Gondawandaland
turn right @ Perth.
Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}

IP IP Logged
Kim L.
Star
Star


Joined: 2/03/07
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 86
bullet Posted: 8/23/07 at 8:19am
My head is spinning with all the wonderful information you have provided.

Here are my new questions:
1. One person talked of needing only a "ledger" for bracing. What is that? I could not find it in my stagecrafting books.

2. My set is going to have a long wall upstage (parallel to the back of the theatre). It will have a doorway and window seat. Length is approx. 26 ft. Then there will be 12 ft. walls coming out on either side. These walls will be angled out left and right stages. These walls will each have a doorway.

With this configuration, will I have enough corners (2) to not need much bracing?

Since it does not sound like I can dutchman them, would I at least need to dutchman the corners? Would the corers show a seam if I did not dutchman them? Can you ducthman two flats together and then book flat them? Will the dutchman hold then?

3. I have a window seat in one wall. The window seat will have a pain window above it. I was thinking of using a cut-out refrigerator box for the back of the window seat (3 sides). I could make a small retangular flat (long side wide) for the bottom and top front of the window box. And I could make a bench (with cusion on top) for the actual seat. Do you think this is a good idea for the window seat? Or am I asking for trouble?

Thank you so much for responding and for all the tips!

Kim

Kim
IP IP Logged
Gaafa
Celebrity
Celebrity
Avatar

Joined: 3/21/04
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1181
bullet Posted: 8/23/07 at 12:13pm
Kim what type of flats are you using?
The 'Ledger' is a lenght of timber, used as a stiffener across the back of the flats.
Taking out the bay window & door flats, you would have about 12' left, made up possibly of 3 x 4' flats, set up one on each side of the element flats.
If you use 'reveals' on the bay window & a return to mask the interior door opening, this would stabilise the wall, along with french or stage braces on the flats. With the door flat, utalise a stretcher iron on the tail of the flat actoss the opening. This will stop the door flat from walking or wandering & the door from jamming out of square.
If your using soft flats, it is a good idea to step the door flat, with a small gap between the door frame & the flat on each side, this cuts out flapping when the door is closed.
With the box seat in the bay window, use a 'jogger' flat the same width of the seat & place a window flat upstage. Just make or find a woden 'coffer' box to fit  with a padded top or whatever. This would be simpler.
You can add a dutchman to a booked corner, however  even using roller bandage or most materials, there will be a fold crease mark as with any  corner, but will not be noticed only by you.

      Joe
Western Gondawandaland
turn right @ Perth.
Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}

IP IP Logged
TimW
Star
Star
Avatar

Joined: 8/10/06
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 83
bullet Posted: 8/25/07 at 10:42pm

If you want to consider not covering the seams, paint your set walls with a stripe pattern. Make sure that the darkest color is where the seams are.

Since your back wall is 26 feet wide, definately use a ledger(brace) across the back. If you don't, you will find yourself putting a brace from the wall to the floor at just about each seam for strength. With the back support, you can cut down on the braces to the floor.

IP IP Logged
Kim L.
Star
Star


Joined: 2/03/07
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 86
bullet Posted: 8/26/07 at 7:08am
I am still playing with the dimensions of my set walls. I don't know the correct way of measuring a stage (where to start, where to end) but from my rough measure, my stage is 52' by 28'. Given those dimensions, does a 26 ft. back wall seem too large? I am planning to get into the theatre and look at through the eyes of this set. If that makes any sense.

KIm
Kim
IP IP Logged
Gaafa
Celebrity
Celebrity
Avatar

Joined: 3/21/04
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1181
bullet Posted: 8/26/07 at 10:16pm
Assuming it is a proscenium venue, there is no correct way to start measuring.
I normaly start with the "Head Tech' or venue management, by asking if the have a stage 'groubd plan', which saves a lot of time & cuts down the chances of making a 'blue'!
If the plan is not available, measure between the walls of the stage area.
 Then the 'zero line'[Setting Line], which runs along between the house curtain drape [rag] between the 'Pro ' ['Tormentors'] masking on Prompt [PS - SL] & Opposite Prompt [OP - SR]  sude of the stage, Then the Cente Line  from the Up stage wall to the front of the  'Apron' [forestage].
Draw it up on a mud/sketch plan & add in all the other smaller dimenstions latter, such as 'Leg Drop' positions.There is also the 'Datum Line' [height],
Rather than getting out the old tape measure, a long stick or using a  knotted piece of string. Get a hold of a ditigal electronic hoby tool box measuring device. They are cheap enough & availabke at nearly every haedware shop or outlet;-
Digital mesuring hand held device;-
http://www.houseoftools.com/product.htm?pid=198120
You can also measure up the height of the 'Boarders, 'Teasers' & 'Pro arch'.
With this ground plan you can scale it down & ,ake yp a 'model', I'm sure this would be up your street, being a teacher. Also it would be a good project fir your students to have a go at. Even devise a miniture Lighting system & electrical distro with 'Batens' [On stage 'fly' pipes] or Bars [fixed position off stage pipes] they can play about with.
This will give you a far better & visual view to spike tour ideas.
This might help with draughting as a theatre standard, by the British Theatre Technicians Association;-http://www2.arts.ubc.ca/TheatreDesign/crslib/drft_2/abttstd.pdf

      Joe
Western Gondawandaland
turn right @ Perth.
Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}

IP IP Logged
lmar12
Player
Player


Joined: 8/22/07
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 25
bullet Posted: 8/30/07 at 10:51am

Hi--

I am constantly having to move into theaters with the time you have allowed to you.  Ok --theater purists will cringe, but instead of dutchmen (which is messy) you can use wide masking tape.  There is no drying time and you may be able to get away with just painting the strips if you're very careful.  It looks pretty good as long as the audience is at least 20-25 feet away.  Hope this helps
IP IP Logged
Page  of 2 Next >>
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums version 8.05
Copyright ©2001-2006 Web Wiz Guide
buy generic cialis are in line cialis canada outcome for yourself viagra sales cost saving benefit viagra uk convert your buy phentermine online pay phentermine cod payment Lenders Everything xanax online your existing xanax overnight absolute must free incest stories online The value gay incest advance The key free dog sex pics cash flow dog sex the reduced noise free gay college guys of the period gay guys