another newbie needs help with set construction
Printed From: Community Theater Green Room
Category: Producing Theater
Forum Name: Set Design and Construction
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URL: http://www.communitytheater.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2592
Printed Date: 5/18/24 at 11:02am
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Topic: another newbie needs help with set construction
Posted By: Kim L.
Subject: another newbie needs help with set construction
Date Posted: 8/21/07 at 3:43pm
I am the Technical Director for our home school co-op high school drama class. We will be producing Little Women in December. I have finalized the set for our play (thank God!). I will be using a permanent set (I think that's the right term) to depict the March Family living room. The living room will be constructed out of flats which will be approximately 26 ft. wide and about 12 ft. deep, with three doorways and a window seat. We will be renting a theatre in the community and I will only have access to it 2 days before the performance.
Now, here are my questions (and forgive me for the amateurish nature of them!):
1. When I butt two flats together to form the long walls and such, I have read that I am supposed to dutchmen them to make the long walls seamless. Since I am constructing the set off-site from the theatre, how do I go about this? Do I really need to dutchmen them? If so, could I paint the walls and then dutchmen them 2 days before the performance? How long does it take dutchmen to dry?
2. I have read about this pin/hinge method for joining flats. Is that enough or do I also have to nail a piece of wood from one flat to another? I forget the technical name I saw for this.
3. Do theatres generally allow you to nail things into their stages for bracing?
Thanks for the help!!
Kim
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Kim
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Replies:
Posted By: Gaafa
Date Posted: 8/22/07 at 6:48am
G'day Kim.
#1 Yes it is good to utalise a datchman, however I doubt you would have
time or be allowed by the theatre to piant & use them, especialy
with a 2 day bump in & the need to focus, set lighting, dress the
set & have a 'tech' & 'Dress' rehearsals.
I assume you are making the flats, are they 'soft' or 'TV' flats?
if so ensure they are square & fitt together neatly & not like a dogs hind leg!
I preffer when jioning flats together, to lash them up with sash &
cleats. Whith soft flats this especial good , because when you wish to
strike them on bump out. Just unlash them & let them fall &
float down to the stage.
But using the loose pin hinges is equaly as good.
However with the sash cord you can pull the flats into square, with extra purchase.
[The sash is attached to the head rail of one flat & run across to
a cleat or purchase scew in the next flat & serpantined between the
two flats stile rails & cleated off at the tail rail.
#2 You would only need a 'Ledger' to hold the wall flat & reduce
the waving. However if you design the walls with step in or out alcoves
& book the flats. This will help & support the box set better.
Which also helps with bracing, especialy for the door flats & I
guess the window seat would set into a bay window.
Use either the adjustable 'stage braces' or 'FRENCH braces' [which are wing hinged on & fold out].
The theatre may not allow you to put stage screws in the deck, in which case 'sandbags or scene weights are used.
But check with the venue to see if they have braces & weights avalable.
Here is some of the hardware they could have in stock & is available to help you.
http://www.doughty-engineering.co.uk/cgi-bin/trolleyed_public.cgi?action=showprod_T60600 - http://www.doughty-engineering.co.uk/cgi-bin/trolleyed_public.cgi?action=showprod_T60600
http://www.flints.co.uk/pdfcatalogue/Scenery%20Fittings.pdf - http://www.flints.co.uk/pdfcatalogue/Scenery%20Fittings.pdf
http://www.doughty-engineering.co.uk/cgi-bin/trolleyed_public.cgi?action=showprod_G3300 - http://www.doughty-engineering.co.uk/cgi-bin/trolleyed_public.cgi?action=showprod_G3300
Rear elivation - 3 flats http://www.northern.edu/wild/th241/3flats_RearElev.pdf - http://www.northern.edu/wild/th241/3flats_RearElev.pdf
'French brace' [at the bottom of
page] http://www.kave.co.uk/Kave_New/sales/scenery.htm - http://www.kave.co.uk/Kave_New/sales/scenery.htm
I hope this helps?
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Joe
Western Gondawandaland
turn right @ Perth.
Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}
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Posted By: Ken W
Date Posted: 8/22/07 at 11:21pm
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Gaafa is the pro, but I have always used the loose pin hinge, 3 to a flat, and many snadbags on the braces for the flats. The stages we use don't allow fastening to the stage, and I brace the flats with triangles and weight them with sandbags. not real stable, but good enough for a show or two.
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Posted By: Gaafa
Date Posted: 8/23/07 at 1:19am
Originally posted by Ken W
Gaafa is the pro, |
Sadly Ken too many smokes & coffees have put pay to that. It has
been a long time since I have solicited myself & had my palms
crossed with silver.
When I used to produce flats I would always set them up for loose pin
flap hinges, useing a template to standardise the hinges [Hinge halves
on a piece of timber to ensure they are all the same, after putting the
skin on] Also with the pins, tieing them to a cord &
attaching it under the hinge half held by the screw, helps to ensure it
was always on hand & also painting the grip of the pin white.
However being long in the tooth I preffer to still use the sash &
cleat as well.
The hinges are not cheap, but well worth the outlay.
However with the bracing, booked flats & placed on angles to the
others, will stable the set. Also reduce the need for dutchmans being
used, employing corners, nooks & cannies into your design, ]The
Edwardians along with Victorians, loved their nooks to break up a
straight wall.
You may need to mask behind the jionts, any strip of black tatt will
do, to mask light & any movement from behind the flats [gaffer
& other tapes have a white or grey sticky side].
Aviod nailing anything that would have to be denailed during Bump out,
because it rarely happens & only become a wepon to inflict harm
latter. Use Tek screws that can be removed with a battery drill or gun,
the luvvies [warm props] love to play about with tek guns!
As I mentioned check with the venue, I'm sure they will have braces
& a lot of hardware you can borrow or even half inch, with their
aproval?
as it's your first time & before your deflowered!
A few other things going into a venue, especialy a pro house. Try &
ensure your are as self contained as possible, regarding consumables
like gaffer tape & the like. A lot of groups tend to forget about
the extras that can be addded to the final bill.
Either yourself or the stage manager set up one of those generic 'Order
Books', so when there is any consumales used or extention to the
orignal hire contract, ensure the venue needs an authorised order
number, to be able to get paid.
Also watch out falling into the trap of paying for things like a
lighting design. Inevertably all you get is a standard rig wash & a
few specials - which is thier normal standard rig anyway.
Further work out all you needs as dictated by the script for cues &
changes before hand {[5 P's 'Pre Planning Prevents P*ss Poor
Production]} Because time is money - so put a meter on it!
Get yourself a 'white board' & list all the jobs for the Bump In/Out & cross them off upon completion.
Marshal your mob to move in the venue quickly & focused on the job
in hand, use a few chosen parents or ASM's to orginise them, especial
the cast to stay off the stage, unless invited to do so.
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Joe
Western Gondawandaland
turn right @ Perth.
Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}
|
Posted By: Kim L.
Date Posted: 8/23/07 at 8:19am
My head is spinning with all the wonderful information you have provided.
Here are my new questions:
1. One person talked of needing only a "ledger" for bracing. What is that? I could not find it in my stagecrafting books.
2. My set is going to have a long wall upstage (parallel to the back of the theatre). It will have a doorway and window seat. Length is approx. 26 ft. Then there will be 12 ft. walls coming out on either side. These walls will be angled out left and right stages. These walls will each have a doorway.
With this configuration, will I have enough corners (2) to not need much bracing?
Since it does not sound like I can dutchman them, would I at least need to dutchman the corners? Would the corers show a seam if I did not dutchman them? Can you ducthman two flats together and then book flat them? Will the dutchman hold then?
3. I have a window seat in one wall. The window seat will have a pain window above it. I was thinking of using a cut-out refrigerator box for the back of the window seat (3 sides). I could make a small retangular flat (long side wide) for the bottom and top front of the window box. And I could make a bench (with cusion on top) for the actual seat. Do you think this is a good idea for the window seat? Or am I asking for trouble?
Thank you so much for responding and for all the tips!
Kim
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Kim
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Posted By: Gaafa
Date Posted: 8/23/07 at 12:13pm
Kim what type of flats are you using?
The 'Ledger' is a lenght of timber, used as a stiffener across the back of the flats.
Taking out the bay window & door flats, you would have about 12'
left, made up possibly of 3 x 4' flats, set up one on each side of the
element flats.
If you use 'reveals' on the bay window & a return to mask the
interior door opening, this would stabilise the wall, along with french
or stage braces on the flats. With the door flat, utalise a stretcher
iron on the tail of the flat actoss the opening. This will stop the
door flat from walking or wandering & the door from jamming out of
square.
If your using soft flats, it is a good idea to step the door flat, with
a small gap between the door frame & the flat on each side, this
cuts out flapping when the door is closed.
With the box seat in the bay window, use a 'jogger' flat the same width
of the seat & place a window flat upstage. Just make or find a
woden 'coffer' box to fit with a padded top or whatever. This
would be simpler.
You can add a dutchman to a booked corner, however even using
roller bandage or most materials, there will be a fold crease mark as
with any corner, but will not be noticed only by you.
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Joe
Western Gondawandaland
turn right @ Perth.
Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}
|
Posted By: TimW
Date Posted: 8/25/07 at 10:42pm
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If you want to consider not covering the seams, paint your set walls with a stripe pattern. Make sure that the darkest color is where the seams are.
Since your back wall is 26 feet wide, definately use a ledger(brace) across the back. If you don't, you will find yourself putting a brace from the wall to the floor at just about each seam for strength. With the back support, you can cut down on the braces to the floor.
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Posted By: Kim L.
Date Posted: 8/26/07 at 7:08am
I am still playing with the dimensions of my set walls. I don't know the correct way of measuring a stage (where to start, where to end) but from my rough measure, my stage is 52' by 28'. Given those dimensions, does a 26 ft. back wall seem too large? I am planning to get into the theatre and look at through the eyes of this set. If that makes any sense.
KIm
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Kim
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Posted By: Gaafa
Date Posted: 8/26/07 at 10:16pm
Assuming it is a proscenium venue, there is no correct way to start measuring.
I normaly start with the "Head Tech' or venue management, by asking if
the have a stage 'groubd plan', which saves a lot of time & cuts
down the chances of making a 'blue'!
If the plan is not available, measure between the walls of the stage area.
Then the 'zero line'[Setting Line], which runs along between the house
curtain drape [rag] between the 'Pro ' ['Tormentors'] masking on Prompt
[PS - SL] & Opposite Prompt [OP - SR] sude of the stage, Then
the Cente Line from the Up stage wall to the front of the
'Apron' [forestage].
Draw it up on a mud/sketch plan & add in all the other smaller
dimenstions latter, such as 'Leg Drop' positions.There is also the
'Datum Line' [height],
Rather than getting out the old tape measure, a long stick or using a
knotted piece of string. Get a hold of a ditigal electronic hoby tool
box measuring device. They are cheap enough & availabke at nearly
every haedware shop or outlet;-
Digital mesuring hand held device;-
http://www.houseoftools.com/product.htm?pid=198120 - http://www.houseoftools.com/product.htm?pid=198120
You can also measure up the height of the 'Boarders, 'Teasers' & 'Pro arch'.
With this ground plan you can scale it down & ,ake yp a 'model',
I'm sure this would be up your street, being a teacher. Also it would
be a good project fir your students to have a go at. Even devise a
miniture Lighting system & electrical distro with 'Batens' [On
stage 'fly' pipes] or Bars [fixed position off stage pipes] they can
play about with.
This will give you a far better & visual view to spike tour ideas.
This might help with draughting as a theatre standard, by the British Theatre Technicians Association;- http://www2.arts.ubc.ca/TheatreDesign/crslib/drft_2/abttstd.pdf - http://www2.arts.ubc.ca/TheatreDesign/crslib/drft_2/abttstd.pdf
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Joe
Western Gondawandaland
turn right @ Perth.
Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}
|
Posted By: lmar12
Date Posted: 8/30/07 at 10:51am
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Hi--
I am constantly having to move into theaters with the time you have allowed to you. Ok --theater purists will cringe, but instead of dutchmen (which is messy) you can use wide masking tape. There is no drying time and you may be able to get away with just painting the strips if you're very careful. It looks pretty good as long as the audience is at least 20-25 feet away. Hope this helps
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Posted By: Gaafa
Date Posted: 8/30/07 at 8:29pm
I agree lmar12 but it depends on the flats your using & the logistics of the venue?
With TV or studio flats with a flush surface, the tape works well.
I suspect Kim works with cardboard & Masking [paper] tape. Which works,
even strips of newspaper, as it is the same type of material &
paint will mask the the edge to an extent.
With most hired venues they prefer you don't use any sort of dutchman
or fixed sets, which allows them the ability to easily strike or move
set pieces. Therefore as with touring sets which are constanly going thru the bump in
& out it is impractical.
With me being super old I druther use soft [calico/muslin, canvas] flats, which have a better surface finish.
As has been suggested here the jionts can be masked by the design & how they are set out.
Also tape can be a pain when it is time to strike & bump out.
To me it is like denailing & just as frustrating, ensuring all the
bits of tape & sticky stuff is removed finaly.
Where with bandage/muslin dutchmen they are easy to just pull off completly in one piece, leaving a clean surface.
Also soft fabric flats are easier to repair than that of hard board
ones, which can be difficult to fit broken pieces & patch up damage,
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Joe
Western Gondawandaland
turn right @ Perth.
Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}
|
Posted By: woalmoore
Date Posted: 10/29/07 at 4:00pm
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As a second opinion rather than masking tape...if you carefully choose your paint color, I've used appropriately colored Gaffe Tape which can be found in just about any main color from black to white including green, red, purple, yellow, blue, brown, etc...
As for the load in...my normal schedule is the Saturday before a Thursday opening I start by building the stage for the production in the performance space and then add the flats etc to that...the space begins with no lighting and I have to provide everything.
BTW, if not inappropriate, where do you work with Home Schoolers? I also do a lot of work with home schoolers in my theatre company. I live in the St. Louis area.
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Posted By: Kim L.
Date Posted: 10/29/07 at 5:24pm
All interesting points. We built soft flats (10 total). I need to go back and read the notes about what Gaafa recommends for setting the flats out. Gaafa, did you say to use black tape from the back?
I am still entertaining the idea of dutchmen. I could have the strips painted wall color already and at least assemble several flats together in the parking lot and then adhere the dutchmen. Whats a little glue in the parking lot, eh?
As for the question of where we home school...Ann Arbor, MI. Our drama program has grown incrediby, as far as what we are capable of offering the high schoolers. This year, we have 34 high schoolers in our class and are renting a nice venue with (I hope) a great set. We are producing two straingt plays this school year (Little Women and Pride and Prejuice). We have 3 women that make up the production team (director and all aspects of backstage). Between the 3 teachers (which are home school moms) we have 22 children between us. My entire budget for backstage (not including costumes) is $200. I am going to go over by only $75. The work has been an incredible hill to climb. But, can you tell I am so proud of our accomplishments (teachers and kids together!)?
Thank you, thank you for all the help!!
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Kim
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Posted By: JoeMc
Date Posted: 10/29/07 at 9:24pm
With my Gaafa hat on, you can use gaffer tape on the back of the flat
jionts, but the lighter colour sticky side will show thru on yarning
joints. Any black or colour to suit the set, tatt material would do to
mask any movement or light coming thru.
However if you are putting them together with the lashings &
cleat system, the soft Flat frames should be able to pull up any out of
square openings between them.
If they are badly out of square, G clamps can help. But be careful drawing
the frame stiles together,depending on if the frame jionts are well
made & you have used keystones. as the jionts might part company?
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