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Choreography, Dance & Movement for Theater
 Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board :Producing Theater :Choreography, Dance & Movement for Theater
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dancingbarefoot
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bullet Posted: 3/22/07 at 2:17pm

I never said in my posts that I didn't think I was paid enough (or that I should be paid more) for the choreography I've done, and I do think there are way more returns than just monetary for working in CT.  My comments about the inbalance of pay were misinterpreted as complaining that I personally don't make enough. I work on the admin. side of theatre as well (although in a clerical and box-office capacity, not as a decision-maker) and I become more and more convinced that CTs should not pay production staff at all. As someone who has been paid for my work, I realize this may seem hypocritical but that seems to be the nature of this question of who gets paid, who doesn't, what and how much in CT.

This is probably a different (although related topic) but, there is a grey area that has come up with some positions.  I think Chris (or maybe Mike) mentioned in another forum that they hire musicians or a music director because the skills required are not something that any volunteer can do, which I would imagine is the case for other CTs as well. And I'm submitting that one could apply the same logic to choreographers and possibly other positions. And diva mentioned that there are people in production jobs that by choice don't do (or perhaps don't have the knowledge to do) the "homework" aspects of the job, but I've seen that occur in all production areas (from costumes, to choreography, to directing) - it happens and yes, even when professionals are hired. But when hiring a professional a certain level should be expected (even if they've accepted the job for less than their average pay), so there's an option of not hiring them again. Non-pros (those who don't make a living in the area of production in which they are working) that are paid are in a strange realm of being a volunteer but at the same time not being a volunteer- and emotions, egos, length of time spent as a volunteer come into play.  I don't claim to have answers but the issues are interesting to me.  I do think that leveling the playing field in stipends would help whether the pay is $0, or more.
 
And every group is different and I'm sorry if I lumped them together, but in my experience (which has included CTs in different parts of the U.S.) there has in every case been a large difference in pay for directors versus choreographers and I do question why.  It's possible that the CTs represented here are different from the theatres I've come in contact with.  But I guess I've seen a similar scale posted in the forums here and (perhaps too quickly) concluded that it's the same in most places. I do apologize if I've come to the wrong conclusion and/or excluded other staff who are also low on the pay scale. And, I apologize that this thread has gotten so off-topic.
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bullet Posted: 3/23/07 at 9:29am
Having already gone on a long-winded rant in another forum about the subject of paid production positions in community theatre, I'll refrain from redundancy, here.  However, I think I see another major issue associated with paying people:  value becomes measured by money instead of applause.  It's enough of a problem that so many people feel underappreciated as volunteers, layer on top of that the too often justified grumblings of pay inequity and it just reinforces my leanings that at least the production function of community theatre needs to return to its roots as an all-volunteer effort.  And I'll go out on a limb here:  Return to all-volunteer productions even if that means eliminating musicals or cutting back the number of productions because you can't find people to do it for nothing.  I fear for the future of community theatre because I fear the loss of passion for it by some of its most dedicated participants and that loss of passion is represented by exchanging what was once a labor of love for a paycheck.   
"Security is a kind of death." - Tennessee Williams
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red diva
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bullet Posted: 3/23/07 at 3:25pm
Bravo, Kibitzer!  Well said.
"I've worked long and hard to earn the right to be called Diva!"
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dancingbarefoot
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bullet Posted: 3/25/07 at 6:13pm
Yes, Kibitzer - very well said.

I'd like to see more theatres willing to take the plunge and go back to their all-volunteer roots. I don't think it's unrealistic that theatres could survive with this structure. However, if theatres are not willing to go forward without paying (and many won't be), I still urge the powers that be to take another look at how or why they've created the structure or hierarchy of pay they've chosen.
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falstaff29
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bullet Posted: 4/01/07 at 9:15pm
Get over yourselves- all of you.
 
Eliminating pay won't cure the main problem here- that everyone THINKS he has the most important job or logs the most hours.
 
Pay enables theaters to attract talented people that do make some significant, unique sacrifice.  How much they pay and to whom is a considered judgment that can reasonably vary show to show.  But there is nothing wrong with pay as a concept.  Don't hate the game; hate the players.
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lhianeaivee
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bullet Posted: 12/04/07 at 12:41pm
well actually ive known a lot of choreographer and one of them is walter will his a good dancer too and one of his step is taken from a radio show ENERGIE 2 well he actually used it in his play then...

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JoeMc
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bullet Posted: 12/05/07 at 2:37am
G'donya Kibitzer!
As I have mentioned before our Incorporation Act precludes Associations from paying members, as in order to be covered by member insurance, they must be volunteers. Otherwise they are covered by Public Liability Insurance or as a contractor they carry thier own.
Besides all that woffle, one of the factors to jusify payments. Seems to be the group learns from buying in experiance & talent, to enhance thier productions.
So there must come a time when the members of a group have learnt enough, to do thier own thing from within?
But I gather they never do & just keep on paying.
Surely they must have money to chuck about & waste or work harder to fundraise to be able to afford these payments. Instead of using it on resources to make production jobs easier & in turn may atract more membership, talent & experiance!
[western] Gondawandaland
"Hear the light & see the sound!
TOI TOI CHOOKAS
{may you always play to a full house!}
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vickifrank
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bullet Posted: 12/05/07 at 9:27pm
I've done lots of years where I got 'paid' for set design, construction, painting or directing...but never big organizations...so never big pay, more or less token pay.  Never regretted a show.  Just was tough to work so hard when I also needed paying work to support my kids.  But the key is that they tried to pay me something, knowing I was worth more than they could pay--all of the technical team was.  I was appreciated--you all are appreciated by your fellow artists.  They just can't afford to pay much more than in 'love'.  Some of my fondest memories, really.  And my kids remember that mom did things....really did unique things.  In short they discovered that mom was an individual...what more can any parent ask?
 
Eventually I learned that if you want to earn a living in the arts you have to work for an arts business, not as an artist.  I started my own business.  Eighteen years later we are doing ok.  And guess what I like best about it?  Doing business in a way that cares more about people getting the artistic effects that want in a budget they can afford--rather than just working for the dollar.  I know it sounds funny, but I like saving people money while getting kick-ass effects.  I'm old enough now that I know I won't get rich.  I'm old enough to know that satisfaction with something done really well is worth more than money.  When you love something enough, you pay yourself in 'love' by doing it.  After all why would anyone want to do art poorly?  Give it your best and consider that your pay (and be greatful that you get the chance and can afford to take it!).
 
Now having really burned out my hands on doing big artwork for sets (mostly by myself), I do fine arts (oil painting).  I charge for it--and donate all proceeds to charity.  And again I've got that 'love' feeling.  If someone enjoys my artwork enough to hang it, wow!, right?  I'm not da Vinci, but my art hangs in a cathedral in Phoenix, in a senator's office in Washington, in an important judge's livingroom, and in my daughter's house.  Sure I don't get paid (after donating it, I don't), but my reward is elsewhere--and my charity benefits lots of abused kids.  Who wins? Me, kids, and whoever likes the art.  And my kids learn that its OK to be an individual--even fun.
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