Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board: What’s wrong with having morals?

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Juliet
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Topic: What’s wrong with having morals?
Posted: 5/18/05 at 5:58pm

So I got the part of Winnie Tate in the musical Annie Get Your Gun. I was and still am uncomfortable with doing the kissing scenes as i am relatively young and the guy who plays tommy keeler is in his twenties. they cast me, then found out i would not do the kiss, called me, and told me that I couldn't play the part without the kissing. I refused once again, and now i am only a member of ensemble. I know they could have worked around the kiss, but for some reason they just HAD to do it...why? why must i be forced to give up a role that i earned(precisely 12 hours of auditioning), just because I am not willing to compromise my morals?...why is this such a big issue for them? any insight or thoughts about it...

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Kathy S
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Posted: 5/18/05 at 11:19pm

Maybe you lost a role unnecessarily. Your director probably didn't expect you to REALLY KISS him. I could be wrong, but I think that no director would expect you to lay a real kiss on a fellow actor. If your director has had any stage direction training at all s/he should know how to direct you to stage a kissing scene so that both party's faces are concealed and FAKE it very convincingly.

On the other hand, maybe you would even be uncomfortable with a very convincing fake kiss, yeah? Maybe just the close proximity with a guy that much older than you is inappropriate. I would certainly be able to see your point there. But I also think that if it were me directing I'd want the kiss, too, so I would probably try to cast two people more appropriately aged.

We had a 14 year old audition for the part of Adelaide in Guys and Dolls in our community theatre one year. She had a hard time understanding that the rest of our cast was pretty well into middle age and it wouldn't have been appropriate for her to play opposite 49 year old Nathan Detroit! There was no way I could offer her the part she wanted so we offered her a part in the chorus which she declined. (What was the girl thinking!)

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countbio
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Posted: 5/19/05 at 10:41am

How old are you?

I agree (as in Kathy S's example), that a very young person (under, say, 16 or so) should not be cast in an adult role with an adult cast....generally doesn't work for many reasons....just not appropriate.

But why did you audition for a role you could not morally do? Was it just the age of the guy? Were you not aware a kissing scene would be required?

What ever the reasons, you went after the part, and they cast you...If you are refusing to do something called for in the script..the director is within her/his rights to remove you. You do not have the option of rewriting parts.

There is nothing wrong with morals....However, if you intend to act in the future....be aware of what is required for each part before you audition...If a simple kiss upsets you, you need to be sure to read scripts and make directors aware of your "will not's" before casting.

By the way, I have directed for many years, at many levels (high school, college, community and semi professional) and have always used "real" kisses if a kiss was called for in the script...it is just acting, after all. In over 20 years, no one has ever expected or requested a fake kiss. Not even in high school productions.

Good luck,

Countbio

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Linda S
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Posted: 5/19/05 at 10:45am

Hi Juliet,

I agree with Kathy S. When I have to cast a part that involves romance I try to cast close to the same age. I did have a time when I directed Our Town that I cast a 30 year old George! (Who knew! He looked younger then her.) She was 17. I spoke with her and her mother. I must say he was more concerned then she was. We blocked the scene upstage and staged the kiss. All went well.

When I did Guys and Dolls my Sky Masterson was having a terrible time kissing Sarah Brown. He was okay after her husband shouted out during rehearsal, "For gods sake kiss her, so we can go home."

So Juliet don't worry. There will be other times and other plays. In the future take a look at the part ahead of time. If kissing on stage makes you uncomfortable ask the director before you audtion what he expects. Then you will know if the part is right for you.

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Juliet
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Posted: 5/19/05 at 11:36am

I am 14 years old, but look 16-18, and the director figured i was sixteen. I had no idea that I was gonna get winnie, so i accepted the part without thinking. I had always figured that it wouldn't be hard to work around the kiss or do a very convincing fake one(as kathy said). The theater that's doing it is a college theater, so the people playing the older parts are in their twenties. I am tall and wellshaped and do not look 14 years old, plus my voice is matured beyond my age. This may be why he thought I wasn't 14.

As for him expecting me to do a real kiss, he definitely did. He said the parts would lose realism, which i can kind of see his point, but still think it could've been worked around.

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tristanrobin
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Posted: 5/19/05 at 1:52pm

I'm sorry you lost a role that you wanted - that's always a
shame.

However - "working around" a kiss is DEFINITELY a director's
choice, not the actress'.

And, as an actress, it may be against your morals to kiss an
older person (I would HOPE so LOL) - however, would it be
against your morals to play a role in "Sweet Charity" or
"Cabaret?" - would you play, oh, say a murderess in "Lizzie
Borden?"

The idea of acting is to make the audience believe you're in
love with the guy - not for YOU (or him) to believe it.
Remember, LOL, a kiss is just a kiss!

But, it's a shame that you lost a role. The upside is that you're
still extremely young - there will be many parts in the future!

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JCCTony
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Posted: 5/19/05 at 1:55pm

I personally would never compromise a scene like that or really ANY scene...of course the director should have KNOWN you were 14 based on your audition form...his bad really.

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Linda S
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Posted: 5/19/05 at 2:13pm

Maybe the director didn't know. I don't ask for actual age on my audition form. I ask, "What age range can you play?" If the range I see on the form and the person in front of me auditioning don't match I make a note on the form. Sometimes I have to ask. . . I had women audition to play the part of Cinderella who was old enough to be my mother. I had to ask. Yes, that was the part she wanted. Talk about living in a dream world!

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Juliet
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Posted: 5/20/05 at 7:19am

I wrote on the form age: 14. It doesn't get much clearer than that. now im in ensemble but there's not much dancing for women. the artistic director offered for me to be in the other musical (music man) cuz there's a lot more dancing, but im afraid i may feel the wrath of the AGYG director. any advice on how to approach that subject?

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Linda S
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Posted: 5/20/05 at 7:58am

Talk to the AGYG director. He and the artsitic director may have already talked. You would have a blast doing the Music Man. I am directing it right now. The kids are having a great time. Remember, even though it feels personal, it is most likely not personal. It is about what is best for the show.

I can tell you from a director's point of view the way you handle this will play a part in the future. The director gave you a choice. You made your decision. Now everyone is moving on. Decide which show you want to do. Put a smile on your face and have fun.

Linda

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Author	Message
Juliet Star Joined: 8/26/04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 73	Topic: What’s wrong with having morals? Posted: 5/18/05 at 5:58pm
	So I got the part of Winnie Tate in the musical Annie Get Your Gun. I was and still am uncomfortable with doing the kissing scenes as i am relatively young and the guy who plays tommy keeler is in his twenties. they cast me, then found out i would not do the kiss, called me, and told me that I couldn't play the part without the kissing. I refused once again, and now i am only a member of ensemble. I know they could have worked around the kiss, but for some reason they just HAD to do it...why? why must i be forced to give up a role that i earned(precisely 12 hours of auditioning), just because I am not willing to compromise my morals?...why is this such a big issue for them? any insight or thoughts about it...

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Kathy S Celebrity Joined: 8/21/04 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 303	Posted: 5/18/05 at 11:19pm
	Maybe you lost a role unnecessarily. Your director probably didn't expect you to REALLY KISS him. I could be wrong, but I think that no director would expect you to lay a real kiss on a fellow actor. If your director has had any stage direction training at all s/he should know how to direct you to stage a kissing scene so that both party's faces are concealed and FAKE it very convincingly. On the other hand, maybe you would even be uncomfortable with a very convincing fake kiss, yeah? Maybe just the close proximity with a guy that much older than you is inappropriate. I would certainly be able to see your point there. But I also think that if it were me directing I'd want the kiss, too, so I would probably try to cast two people more appropriately aged. We had a 14 year old audition for the part of Adelaide in Guys and Dolls in our community theatre one year. She had a hard time understanding that the rest of our cast was pretty well into middle age and it wouldn't have been appropriate for her to play opposite 49 year old Nathan Detroit! There was no way I could offer her the part she wanted so we offered her a part in the chorus which she declined. (What was the girl thinking!)
	IP Logged

countbio Player Joined: 5/03/04 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 25	Posted: 5/19/05 at 10:41am
	How old are you? I agree (as in Kathy S's example), that a very young person (under, say, 16 or so) should not be cast in an adult role with an adult cast....generally doesn't work for many reasons....just not appropriate. But why did you audition for a role you could not morally do? Was it just the age of the guy? Were you not aware a kissing scene would be required? What ever the reasons, you went after the part, and they cast you...If you are refusing to do something called for in the script..the director is within her/his rights to remove you. You do not have the option of rewriting parts. There is nothing wrong with morals....However, if you intend to act in the future....be aware of what is required for each part before you audition...If a simple kiss upsets you, you need to be sure to read scripts and make directors aware of your "will not's" before casting. By the way, I have directed for many years, at many levels (high school, college, community and semi professional) and have always used "real" kisses if a kiss was called for in the script...it is just acting, after all. In over 20 years, no one has ever expected or requested a fake kiss. Not even in high school productions. Good luck, Countbio
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Linda S Celebrity Joined: 4/16/05 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 312	Posted: 5/19/05 at 10:45am
	Hi Juliet, I agree with Kathy S. When I have to cast a part that involves romance I try to cast close to the same age. I did have a time when I directed Our Town that I cast a 30 year old George! (Who knew! He looked younger then her.) She was 17. I spoke with her and her mother. I must say he was more concerned then she was. We blocked the scene upstage and staged the kiss. All went well. When I did Guys and Dolls my Sky Masterson was having a terrible time kissing Sarah Brown. He was okay after her husband shouted out during rehearsal, "For gods sake kiss her, so we can go home." So Juliet don't worry. There will be other times and other plays. In the future take a look at the part ahead of time. If kissing on stage makes you uncomfortable ask the director before you audtion what he expects. Then you will know if the part is right for you. L.
	IP Logged

Juliet Star Joined: 8/26/04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 73	Posted: 5/19/05 at 11:36am
	I am 14 years old, but look 16-18, and the director figured i was sixteen. I had no idea that I was gonna get winnie, so i accepted the part without thinking. I had always figured that it wouldn't be hard to work around the kiss or do a very convincing fake one(as kathy said). The theater that's doing it is a college theater, so the people playing the older parts are in their twenties. I am tall and wellshaped and do not look 14 years old, plus my voice is matured beyond my age. This may be why he thought I wasn't 14. As for him expecting me to do a real kiss, he definitely did. He said the parts would lose realism, which i can kind of see his point, but still think it could've been worked around.
	IP Logged

tristanrobin Celebrity Joined: 4/25/05 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 704	Posted: 5/19/05 at 1:52pm
	I'm sorry you lost a role that you wanted - that's always a shame. However - "working around" a kiss is DEFINITELY a director's choice, not the actress'. And, as an actress, it may be against your morals to kiss an older person (I would HOPE so LOL) - however, would it be against your morals to play a role in "Sweet Charity" or "Cabaret?" - would you play, oh, say a murderess in "Lizzie Borden?" The idea of acting is to make the audience believe you're in love with the guy - not for YOU (or him) to believe it. Remember, LOL, a kiss is just a kiss! But, it's a shame that you lost a role. The upside is that you're still extremely young - there will be many parts in the future!
	IP Logged

JCCTony Star Joined: 2/03/05 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 73	Posted: 5/19/05 at 1:55pm
	I personally would never compromise a scene like that or really ANY scene...of course the director should have KNOWN you were 14 based on your audition form...his bad really.
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Linda S Celebrity Joined: 4/16/05 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 312	Posted: 5/19/05 at 2:13pm
	Maybe the director didn't know. I don't ask for actual age on my audition form. I ask, "What age range can you play?" If the range I see on the form and the person in front of me auditioning don't match I make a note on the form. Sometimes I have to ask. . . I had women audition to play the part of Cinderella who was old enough to be my mother. I had to ask. Yes, that was the part she wanted. Talk about living in a dream world! L.
	IP Logged

Juliet Star Joined: 8/26/04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 73	Posted: 5/20/05 at 7:19am
	I wrote on the form age: 14. It doesn't get much clearer than that. now im in ensemble but there's not much dancing for women. the artistic director offered for me to be in the other musical (music man) cuz there's a lot more dancing, but im afraid i may feel the wrath of the AGYG director. any advice on how to approach that subject?
	IP Logged

Linda S Celebrity Joined: 4/16/05 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 312	Posted: 5/20/05 at 7:58am
	Talk to the AGYG director. He and the artsitic director may have already talked. You would have a blast doing the Music Man. I am directing it right now. The kids are having a great time. Remember, even though it feels personal, it is most likely not personal. It is about what is best for the show. I can tell you from a director's point of view the way you handle this will play a part in the future. The director gave you a choice. You made your decision. Now everyone is moving on. Decide which show you want to do. Put a smile on your face and have fun. Linda
	IP Logged