Portable Sound System
Printed From: Community Theater Green Room
Category: Producing Theater
Forum Name: Lights and Sound
Forum Discription: Technical discussion
URL: http://www.communitytheater.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3329
Printed Date: 5/24/25 at 5:07am Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 8.05 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Portable Sound System
Posted By: LEHCo
Subject: Portable Sound System
Date Posted: 8/04/08 at 10:16pm
Hi All! I've gotten such great advice on here, I thought I'd try for more.
Our group is trying to purchase a portable sound system that we can use at our Community Center and also at outdoor venues. Has anyone out there done this and if so, what type and/or brand did you purchase? I'm just trying to get an idea as to what I should be looking for, since I have very little experience with this.
We would like a control board with cd player, microphones and an amp, possibly a stand too.
Thanks so much!
Lucille
The Little Egg Theatre Co.
------------- Thanks!
LEHCo
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Replies:
Posted By: ClintonHammond
Date Posted: 8/05/08 at 11:56am
What's your budget?
With specs that vague, that's probably the best thing to consider first.
------------- Without actors, a techie is a person with a list of marketable skills.
Without techies, an actor is just a goof, emoting alone in the dark.
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Posted By: LEHCo
Date Posted: 8/05/08 at 12:10pm
Good point! We're going for a $1K grant. Thanks!
Here is a link to one that I've found just as an example:
http://www.avnow.com/Fit_500_p/fit500cd%20emic.htm
------------- Thanks!
LEHCo
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Posted By: ClintonHammond
Date Posted: 8/05/08 at 12:17pm
When it comes to portable sound, you won't get much for a grand...
Put it in the bank until you have 5, is my advice
That way you won't be forced to buy junk that in the end will be a waste of a grand...
------------- Without actors, a techie is a person with a list of marketable skills.
Without techies, an actor is just a goof, emoting alone in the dark.
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Posted By: Nanette
Date Posted: 8/06/08 at 5:35am
Here's the advice I got from a techie who's been in the business for decades and this will give you the opportunity to grow with your theatre. The speakers mentioned are SMALL, but put out great sound if you're indoors. See if you can find someone at a music store who rents the stuff to advise on speakers you can use outdoors. We run our effects/music from an iPod through the soundboard and it works fine.
"As for speakers I'd suggest EAW either the UB or VR series. You'd have to find a distributor in your area who sells them. I wouldn't suggest buying any speakers from sam ash and such. Check out Crown amps to power your speakers.
For your board something like a Yamaha 124cx would be good for your space with the ability to run all of your equipment, boundary mics and all.
As for mics, check out the EZB Easyflex Boundary Microphones from Shure or EZO Easyflex Overhead Microphones and if your using hand held mics the SM58s are good."
Hope this helps.
------------- In a world of margarine, be butter!
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Posted By: LEHCo
Date Posted: 8/06/08 at 10:46pm
Thanks for the info and advice! I'll definitely check out the brands you mentioned and try to get in touch with a rental place, that's a great idea!
Thanks again!
Lucille
------------- Thanks!
LEHCo
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Posted By: magic612
Date Posted: 8/07/08 at 10:44am
Lucille,
I agree with Clint that you won't get much for a grand, though I disagree that you need 5 grand for anything decent - 3K would set you up with a usable, though relatively small, system. I've been a musician for years, and there's plenty of good used equipment out there that can be had for much less than full price. Problem is, you would need some knowledge of what's good/bad, and how to test items for their quality. Given your acknowledgement that "I have very little experience at this," I'd highly recommend finding someone that knows about this stuff (and whom you trust) to help you out.
First off, you will always, always, ALWAYS need way more inputs that you think you do. If you think 4 will suffice, you'll need 12 by the next show. If you think 12 are sufficient, you'll find a way to need 24. In other words, buy a mixer that has more inputs than you think you need. Don't go based on claims of "24 CHANNEL mixer!" either - often this is just a ruse that hides the fact that there's only 12 XLR inputs, and 6 STEREO inputs (that are RCA, and can't be use for microphones). You can ALWAYS find a way to convert a mic input to a CD player - much harder is converting a stereo RCA input for a microphone (in other words, don't bother). Check to see how many XLR inputs the mixer has.
Crown amplifiers are excellent. But here's the things about amps - always, always, ALWAYS get WAY more watts of power than you need. The reason most systems wind up with a very audible "hissing" sound in them is because the amp doesn't have enough power, and is turned up to level 8 or 9 to achieve sufficient volume. Almost EVERY amp will hiss at that level. Get one that you can turn up to 4 or 5 so that it will be LOUD then, and you'll find that most any amp will do well then (but especially Crowns).
Buy GOOD cables. The best sound system in the world using cheap cables will wind up with buzzes, hisses, pops, and worst of all, completely dropped sound. Don't skimp on this part. Take it from someone who has experienced it!!
Oh, and I DON'T recommend powered speakers - I've found that they SEEM to be a great idea, until one blows and you have only one side working or, more frequently, there's a plug on one side of the stage to plug in one speaker, but you don't have the right extension cord to power the other speaker. I don't recommend powered mixers either! Thing is, it's usually less expensive to replace a power amp than to replace one powered speaker or a powered mixer. But that's just my personal opinion.
Many techs swear by Mackie mixers. I think the old ones were probably very good, but some of the newer ones are things to be sworn at. We have two at our high school theater, and both of them, though relatively new (I think 5 years old perhaps, and hardly used) each have problems. Soundcraft are generally considered to be excellent, last I knew.
And lastly, if this is a portable system, it's best to find a rack system/cart that the mixer and amp can safely be stored and transported in. A church I attended did get an "all in one" system like that for a few thousand dollars (though it had the dreaded "powered speakers" setup), and it worked quite well inside and out (in some very large spaces, too).
I'd suggest Sweetwater.com as a good place to find equipment, though none of their "all in one" systems would be of much good for a community theater application, as they'd offer almost no room for expanding microphone needs.
Hope that helps!
------------- Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness how genius, power and magic in it. Begin it now. ~ often attributed to Goethe
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Posted By: ClintonHammond
Date Posted: 8/07/08 at 11:10am
Who's "Clint"?
" I disagree that you need 5 grand for anything decent - 3K would set you up with a usable, though relatively small, system" But then you go on to list all kinds of reasons why they will quickly grow out of any small system... So you're contradicting yourself...
I recommend they save their money until they can afford a good Bose Stick system... And the professionals to install it correctly.
"Buy GOOD cables." Hear hear!!
"I DON'T recommend powered speakers" Hear hear!!!!
------------- Without actors, a techie is a person with a list of marketable skills.
Without techies, an actor is just a goof, emoting alone in the dark.
|
Posted By: LEHCo
Date Posted: 8/07/08 at 11:21am
Thanks to everyone for your advice! I guess I should have noted that this is meant to be a small system that we can bring with us to different events. We are a very small group currently. However, in the future we will be looking to purchase a full sound system for our group. We currently hire someone to do all of our lighting and sound for our larger shows, but we put on smaller shows that we don't need a big system for. We definitely know we will have to get a pro to help purchase a full system. Thanks to all again!
Lucille
------------- Thanks!
LEHCo
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Posted By: magic612
Date Posted: 8/07/08 at 11:48am
Originally posted by ClintonHammond
Who's "Clint"? |
Sorry. Clinton. My bad. I shouldn't have shortened your name. People routinely shorten my screen name to “magic” so since this is a message board, I didn’t think it a problem. I won’t do it again, though.
Originally posted by ClintonHammond
"I disagree that you need 5 grand for anything decent - 3K would set you up with a usable, though relatively small, system" But then you go on to list all kinds of reasons why they will quickly grow out of any small system... So you're contradicting yourself... |
Errrr... not at all. If you're suggesting that she can get a good new system for 5 grand (which I agree with), then she can get a system with some good USED equipment for 3 grand.
Note that I said, "there's plenty of good used equipment out there that can be had for much less than full price.”
That was kind of the point of that sentence preceding all the other ones. It sets up what can be purchased – USED – for a good price, thereby allowing the buyer to do so for quite a bit less than the 5 grand you suggested. Since most good equipment typically sells used for 50% to 60% of new, 3 grand was a reasonable estimate based on your 5 grand figure. Note also that I encouraged her to find someone she trusts to help her find it, that is knowledgeable about these items.
Perhaps my suggestion of finding equipment at Sweetwater was misunderstood. I meant it in terms of a good place to search for what one might want, then have a tech person help them find it used, locally.
Originally posted by ClintonHammond
”I recommend they save their money until they can afford a good Bose Stick system... “ |
A Bose stick for a theater? I understand why a single acoustic folk singer or duo might do well with such a system, or perhaps a traveling improve troupe of three players where set and scenery are non-existent, but beyond that, a Bose stick isn’t terribly useful for a theatrical sound person trying to run sound effects that requires even simple things like panning hard left or right, or for a system that may require expansion in the future. They have few inputs, and as such, would be woefully inadequate for theatrical needs. I would surmise that’s why Bose markets them to musicians, instead of theaters. Besides, where would you place it if you had a backdrop? A set with plywood flats that stretches across the stage? Not terribly useful, I don't think.
I have a Bose system at home, and it’s a wonderful, amazing piece of technology. They really do make great stuff. But I wouldn’t use the stick system in a theater for actors.
------------- Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness how genius, power and magic in it. Begin it now. ~ often attributed to Goethe
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Posted By: ClintonHammond
Date Posted: 8/07/08 at 2:14pm
"Sorry. Clinton. My bad. I shouldn't have shortened your name." Don't sweat it mate.. I'm just takin' the smeg a bit... (Only my mother ever calls me Clint, and I don't much like it then either... (Usually it means I'm about to get a good cuff across the ear! LOL )
Isn't there a page on the Bose web site that talks about the applications of using a pir of sticks in a theatre?? Maybe I read that somewhere else... I'll try to source it a post it....
------------- Without actors, a techie is a person with a list of marketable skills.
Without techies, an actor is just a goof, emoting alone in the dark.
|
Posted By: David McCall
Date Posted: 2/03/09 at 11:43am
There is one bit of very important information missing. What do you expect to use this system for?
Having a system like the one OP gave a link to is nice in that it doesn't require a lot of set-up and it all packs into a neat little package. However the one shown is more appropriate for selling ShamWows or small seminars. The system shown is too limited for any use for theatrical. There are similar systems that might work, but they will be a lot more money.
For theatrical use you usually need a sound operator. Are you going to be happy with a sound operator standing behind a speaker on the apron? A minimum requirement is to separate the speakers from the mixer. I personally wouldn't want the amplifier to be built into the speakers or the mixer, but I can see how that might be attractive for a person that is not into technical stuff. With so little money available, you might do better to try renting different systems until you find something you like.
Are you just amplifying voices or do you need to get over an orchestra or even a Piano? It matters.
Will it be used for music playback or just voice? You may need bigger speakers to make music sound decent.
Will it have to reproduce sound effects? a ringing telephone doesn't take much, but thunder takes a lot.
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Posted By: dannysabenada
Date Posted: 2/15/09 at 2:19pm
I don't know how useful these will be outdoors, but I can tell you that Crown boundary mics are a lifesaver. The PCC-160 costs about the same as a prosumer Shure lavaliere but it can pick up multiple actors onstage (effectively negating the need to mic individual actors). The only downside is that it is wired (but you could probably find a way to patch it into a lavaliere transmitter) and the actors need to be able to project halfway decently, but otherwise it is extremely amazing. I work in children's theater and we use this instead of giving the children, who are anywhere from 4 to 12 years old, $300 lavalieres because it became too much of a liability.
http://www.crownaudio.com/mic_web/pcc.htm - http://www.crownaudio.com/mic_web/pcc.htm
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Posted By: LEHCo
Date Posted: 2/24/09 at 9:44pm
Thanks again, great info! It would be used for small shows (maybe 50 - 100 attendees) and possible small outdoor shows. I'll definitely check out the mics, thanks! We will probably use it for music and also for actors, but possible not at the same time. Thanks all!
------------- Thanks!
LEHCo
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Posted By: TEPA
Date Posted: 3/15/09 at 7:13am
Have a look at Behringer. They are very cost effective. I have powered desks, heaps of desks and amps and 6 powered speakers.
I swear by the powered speakers. They are quick amd easy
They shouldnt fail unless you over drive them. 15" will give you plenty of head room (400W RMS)
A mixer is cheap and CD's are a dime a dozen
JBL EON are lower power but I am really satisfied with the Behringer (cheap too)
Even mic's are cheap. It is no use buying an expensive mic if you have a cheaper system. It is all relative. If all of you mics are the same, then the quality is the same. If you mix and match different mics, then the quality of your mics also becomes noticible
Good luck
------------- Technical Entertainment Production Academy
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