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Help please!

Printed From: Community Theater Green Room
Category: Theater Administration
Forum Name: Money Talk
Forum Discription: Questions about fundraising and promotion
URL: http://www.communitytheater.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3290
Printed Date: 5/14/24 at 3:13pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 8.05 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Help please!
Posted By: gracie
Subject: Help please!
Date Posted: 7/13/08 at 9:52am

I used almost all of the entire set which was used for the previous production, and requested (in writing) that they leave all of the set pieces as-is.  That way, if I needed any other lumber for building, I simply had to take something apart and I would have lumber to use.

The previous show director (also a board member, as am I) is insisting that my show pick up half of the cost he incurred for the set.  Not only the lumber, which I don't have a problem with...But he insists I must pay for half of the paint as well!  That, I do have a problem with. 
 
We repainted the enire set from the all black he had for his production of Grease, to all jungle for Disney's The Jungle Book.
 
At our previous board meeting he had made the comment that our show would be paying for half of the set costs of his show and I kind of remember agreeing (I'm also the secretary, so I was busy trying to catch up on my recording of the minutes at the time).  When he said set, I took that to mean lumber.  I would just put it down to lack of communication/misunderstanding, but he has been a total a**, not just about this, but to others about various things.
 
Any suggestions on how to deal with this?
 
 


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www.vermillionplayers.com - www.vermillionplayers.com



Replies:
Posted By: B-M-D
Date Posted: 7/15/08 at 9:40pm
Well that's just nuts.   If it's all for the same organization what does it matter?   At my CT we try save lumber from previous production if we can and reuse it if not the next production then perhaps some other production.  It doesn't matter what production paid for it because in the end it's the CT itself that's paying for it and it all balances out in the end anyway.   The same for the paint.   The less we need to spend on paint and lumber the better.   Don't get me wrong we spend the money when we need to and rarely compromise on production values.

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BD

"Dying is easy, comedy is hard."


Posted By: JoeMc
Date Posted: 7/16/08 at 2:05am
How long before this drongo graduates from Kindergarten?

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[western] Gondawandaland
"Hear the light & see the sound!
TOI TOI CHOOKAS
{may you always play to a full house!}


Posted By: mary051756
Date Posted: 7/16/08 at 8:09am
Why not bring it up to the Board and have them decide - and if they go with his version...find another CT that's normal!

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“To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment.” EMERSON


Posted By: MartyW
Date Posted: 7/16/08 at 11:44am
Bottom line is always, the bottom line.. Do they have seperate accounts? or is this just directorial bragging rights on how much thier show made/vs cost... ???  Remind them maybe that its all the same money no matter where the blame/credit goes?  And after that, I have to agree with joe, tell them to grow up.

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Marty W

"Till next we trod the boards.."


Posted By: jaytee060
Date Posted: 7/16/08 at 2:34pm
[QUOTE=B-M-D]  If it's all for the same organization what does it matter?  
 
 
   Of course it matters.  Why should you're shows production costs help pay for another shows paint.  Would you pay for a dress made for an actress in his play when you had an all male cast for yours?    No way Jose !  And I don't care if he is the president of your board, what he is asking is just not right.  And I would certainly think that any slightly intelligent Board of Trustees would tell him so.


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"REMEMBER ME IN LIGHT"


Posted By: JoeMc
Date Posted: 7/16/08 at 7:45pm
Paint is a consumable, like many other materials, if they can be reused or utilised for other shows, it's a bonus resource to the theatre group.
I have produced set pieces such as revolves, flats, rostra & what have you. For a specific production, yet have reused many times over for a myriad of shows.
One that comes to mind was the first 18' revolve, that the particular group took issue with, as being a total waste of time & money. Funnily enough that was about 20 years ago & they still are still using it today for at least a couple of productions a year. At the time the only way I could get it through committee to spend the money, was to justify it on the bases of it being used for two later productions. Probably not a good example, except should those other productions reduce their budget to pay a fee for utilising it? Much the same with the stock standard flats, painted black & used as fixed legs [wings]. So the production I produced them for should actually be very cost effective, as they would have paid for them selves about 20 times over. So in fact now it cost nothing & my budget should be reduced accordingly, every time their used? It is good for my ego, but a pain in the R Send for for anyone to account for it!
Why not every production that uses gel & lighting actually pay out of their budget, for a proportional fee of the replacement costs. [actually this is not that bad an idea!]However this is house all keeping & the theatre budget. Same as toilet paper & soap.


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[western] Gondawandaland
"Hear the light & see the sound!
TOI TOI CHOOKAS
{may you always play to a full house!}


Posted By: belle
Date Posted: 7/16/08 at 11:36pm
You can always play the "if it's not written down, it didn't happen" card.  Secretary is a very powerful position.  I think I would "forget" the side conversation about who pays for what since it didn't make it into the minutes.


Posted By: B-M-D
Date Posted: 7/17/08 at 9:09am
Originally posted by jaytee060

[QUOTE=B-M-D]  If it's all for the same organization what does it matter?  
 
 
   Of course it matters.  Why should you're shows production costs help pay for another shows paint.  Would you pay for a dress made for an actress in his play when you had an all male cast for yours?    No way Jose ! 
 
I'm not an accountant so perhaps from a bean counter's perspective it does matter.   The point is some other production is continually and either directly or indirectly going pay for another production's use of materials.   It goes with the territory.   There's not a CT in my neck of the woods that starts from scratch as far as use of materials is concerned.   There's always the legacy of a previous production associated with the current one.
 
Then again I don't pay attention to my budget anyway.   Sometimes I'm over sometimes I'm under.   But my productions make money despite my less than desirable budgetary skills.   But I suppose that's a whole 'nuther discussion.


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BD

"Dying is easy, comedy is hard."


Posted By: jcf0mtr
Date Posted: 7/22/08 at 2:29pm
Tell the dweeb that you are using the lumber - painted or not, and if he wants you to pay for the paint, have him send you an invoice.    When it comes in, turn it over to the board for approval since it is an expense overage.    If the board has any common sense, they will laugh at it and tell the dweeb to get a life.    If the board doesn't support you, get out of there as fast as you can because the insanity probably is contagious.

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Joe
Pembroke Pines Theatre of the Performing Arts


Posted By: Darren
Date Posted: 7/22/08 at 6:31pm
I agree that in most theaters it wouldn't matter.  The exception I suppose is if you're rewarded in some way for coming under budget.  If that's true, let the board decide.  The fact is you didn't use the previous show's paint--why should you pay for it?

What most disturbs me is that this other guy wants to make an issue out of it.  If you're both board members of the same theater, the good of the theater should be what matters.


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Darren Farrington
Theater Management and Production Consultant
http://darrenfarrington.com - www.darrenfarrington.com


Posted By: gracie
Date Posted: 7/22/08 at 7:24pm
Wow.  I didn't realize this topic generated so many responses.  First of all everyone, Thank You for your replies.  I appreciate the input from others.
 
Here's what happened: 
When it came time to get my expense figures together, I emailed him and asked for a listing of his lumber purchases so I could get my set costs together, figure out where I was spending-wise.
 
When I next saw him, he informed me my show had already paid for half of the cost of his set, including the paint.  Did I mention he is also the treasurer and a tempermental artist?  Ermm  I was pretty...Well, let's say I was caught off guard.
 
That night, I emailed him again.  This time requesting copies of receipts so I could include them with my set expenses.  My thought here was to do an itemized expense report, forcing him to show me what he had spent.  (For some reason, we never seem to find out exact details of what he has spent on a show.) 
 
After I told a couple of other fellow board members about our exchange (they agreed with me), they tried to talk to him about it.  Make him see what I was asking for was not out of line.  Get him to see the big picture, that we are all part of the same group.
 
After these exchanges and my request for receipts, he emailed me back stating it was a moot point and my show will not be paying for any of his set/paint costs.
 
There are NOT separate accounts for each show.  I'm guessing he just wanted to make his earnings/numbers look better.  Not that is was necessary.  He did direct Grease after all.
 
Here's how our group works:
Submit a budget (the board usually makes changes, often increasing certain budget costs).
 
The budget is simply a guideline, so expenses don't get out of hand.  Of course, the ultimate goal is to come in under budget, while still putting together a quality production.
 
Again Thank You to everyone for your replies.  I was initally a bit stumped about what to do, because I couldn't find adequate theatrical definitions of SET or SCENERY.  My initial arguement was going to be that paint is not part of the set.  It all ended well, though.  I guess there's just no escaping drama in theatre with so many different temperments involved. 
 
 


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www.vermillionplayers.com - www.vermillionplayers.com


Posted By: KEB54
Date Posted: 7/24/08 at 3:47pm
Decline.  Have him pay for his own set totally.  To keep costs down, tell the board that you will use as much previously purchased construction materials as possible. ... Your show is after his, right?  Smile

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KEB


Posted By: Baldwin _jack
Date Posted: 7/25/08 at 12:46pm



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Date Posted: 7/26/08 at 10:57am

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http://www.insurancecompanycentral.com - Insurance Company


Posted By: vickifrank
Date Posted: 7/28/08 at 9:17am
1. ) Nominate someone else as treasurer next time, and 2.) propose that your board audit the books each year with an audit committee (the treasurer is not on this committee).   Get this written into the standing rules--but sell it as a protection for the organization and also the treasurer, who is responsible if money disappears.  3.) Also propose that some rules are set down regarding accounting for expenses.  For example if a director/producer goes over the budget for his set because he believes that another subsequent show can reuse the pieces, he should get that overage approved by the board--who then reduces the next show's budget accordingly.
 
Sometimes people believe that a charity, or volunteer group or a club is being 'mean' by having rules.  But the rules keep peace.  More experienced people will volunteer if they can know what to expect.  Keep the rules simple and clear and let the board decide formally to go around a budget in rare cases--that makes it clear that all agreed.  If you can't summon a board meeting, have an agreement that you need a quorum of the board to agree by email--and that the secretary records this as a board decision.
 
For a charity that I'm VP of, for clubs for which  I've been president, VP or treasurer, I've insisted on similar controls.  Sometimes I've instituted them.  This secures tax status, and protects both the club and the treasurer.  In at least one club, before the simple audit requirment was added, I know of at least two cases where money could not be accounted for--in one of those cases it cast suspicion on the volunteer treasurer.  Would you want to be that treasurer and have your 'friends' suspicious where $100 went?  A person's reputation is worth far more than $100.


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http://www.studio-productions-inc.com
1-800-359-2964

The theater scrim people



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