magic circle
Printed From: Community Theater Green Room
Category: Producing Theater
Forum Name: Props, Scenery, Costumes and Makeup
Forum Discription: For how-to's and where-can-I-find
URL: http://www.communitytheater.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2542
Printed Date: 5/14/24 at 2:56pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 8.05 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: magic circle
Posted By: Joan54
Subject: magic circle
Date Posted: 7/27/07 at 4:20pm
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Here's another interesting problem that I can use some help with for "The "Tempest". There is a scene where Prospero creates a magic circle that ensnares some of the other characters. He casts it down before they walk on the stage. Now here's where my mind has gone......string/ rope whatever.....like a lariat spinning down above......might look pretty good but doesn't exactly "ensnare". Then ( while plowing through a really boring day at work today) I thought about slap bracelets....remember them? Thin layered metal straps encased in fabric and they lay flat until you slapped them over your wrist and they curved and held. What if I could make a big one? How cool would that be if a straight stick could "Crack!" turn into a curve if it were thrown onto the ground. Do you think this will work? Any other strange ideas to play with?
By the way the "Xena Warrior Wings" are still in first place for wing design......think they will actually get built ( see earlier "wings" post)
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"behind a thin wall of logic panic is waiting to stampede"
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Replies:
Posted By: Gaafa
Date Posted: 7/28/07 at 3:40am
If you can't find the memory steel Joan, you could try doing it with EL Wire;-
http://www.elwire.com/ - http://www.elwire.com/
For your lariat idea.
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Joe
Western Gondawandaland
turn right @ Perth.
Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}
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Posted By: EddyZ
Date Posted: 7/29/07 at 9:06am
If your stage is raked, or if the seating rakes down toward the stage such that, for most seating, the actual stage floor itself can be seen, use a circle of rope lights. Coupled with some funky overhead lighting and maybe a bit of smoke, you'd have a nice effect.
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EddyZ
http://webpages.atlanticbb.net/~ezahurak/ - http://webpages.atlanticbb.net/~ezahurak/
http://www.nailsouptheatre.com - www.nailsouptheatre.com/
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Posted By: Joan54
Date Posted: 7/30/07 at 2:02pm
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What is EL Wire?
Our stage has no rake to it at all......it is a restored music hall with a very high stage.....the people in the front row are level with the actor's feet.....
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"behind a thin wall of logic panic is waiting to stampede"
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Posted By: Gaafa
Date Posted: 7/30/07 at 8:16pm
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Ir's all on the site & basicly descibed by it's name - EL {Electro
Luminecance}.
It
is realy like rope light, but rather than bulky light bubbles strung
together in a tube. The thin tube has two wires intertwined within it
& when any voltage [EMF] is applied this excites the phrosphor
& creates light through out the tube. AC & Dc voltage can be
used from General Purpose Outlet mains socket or a battery, the higher
the voltage the brighter the wire tube light. It is flexable & can
be used in almost any configiration & any length. You can go with
Inverters & generator modules, as suggested,but just basic
electrical ability is all that is needed.
As your in
an old Music Hall I assume there would be 'Dip Traps' set in the stage deck, that
can acomodate the electrical gubbins & the EL wire. Which could be run out,
thru a fair lead & switched on in view, then dropped onto the deck.
If
there is a sight line problem for the punters, you could fly in a plastic
mirror, on an angle, above the circle. To let all bos's see the light circle.
You could use stick on mirror or Shrink Mirror may be
better;- http://www.rosco.com/uk/propscenic/mirrors.asp#Shrink - http://www.rosco.com/uk/propscenic/mirrors.asp#Shrink
It could be put on a shaped board as part of the setting
or even dead hung from a Tab track & brought on as a lonely passing cloud, that lingers longer - just a thought?
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Joe
Western Gondawandaland
turn right @ Perth.
Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}
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Posted By: Joan54
Date Posted: 7/31/07 at 7:34am
Thanks Joe...I'll check it out....
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"behind a thin wall of logic panic is waiting to stampede"
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Posted By: TimW
Date Posted: 8/06/07 at 8:24am
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I have used EL wire and love it. The great thing is that the wire uses a frequency like Gaafa said and stays cool to the touch. I used about 14 feet of it for a show powered by a 9 volt battery. This makes it conveniant if you want an actor to control it from onstage and not have wires restricting the action.
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Posted By: Gaafa
Date Posted: 8/06/07 at 12:02pm
That's the thing which I like about it, the higher the voltage applied,
the brighter it is.[of course voltage loss over length does apply]
Wether it be 1VDC to 254VAC I have never known it to burn out.
Therefore it is idiot proof to a certain extent?
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Joe
Western Gondawandaland
turn right @ Perth.
Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}
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Posted By: Linda S
Date Posted: 8/06/07 at 4:06pm
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You never know what you you are going to find on this board. Gaafa, thank you so much for the information on EL wire. I have a show coming up that needs a neon sign with very specific wording. By using glowire I figure I can make it for about a tenth the price of a neon sign, and in any colors I want. The website you gave is only selling by the full roll. I did find a site http://www.glowire.com - www.glowire.com that sells kits and varying lenghts of the EL wire. Thanks again.
Linda
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Posted By: Gaafa
Date Posted: 8/07/07 at 2:40am
thanks for the 'Glowire' alturnative, I'l keep that in mind for the future Linda.
As ELWire is produced there, I guess that Glowire could be made in China cheaper, like every thing else!
The problem for us is it is not stocked localy & is ordered on
indent only from theatrical suppliers - So we pay thru the nose anyway.
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Joe
Western Gondawandaland
turn right @ Perth.
Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}
|
Posted By: Joan54
Date Posted: 8/07/07 at 8:21am
Thanks for the tip about the glowire......I think I'll get one of their kits and see what it looks like on stage.
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"behind a thin wall of logic panic is waiting to stampede"
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Posted By: Gaafa
Date Posted: 8/07/07 at 9:39am
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This is something that may help you Joan & Linda &/or any
thechie for that natter.
It is something I have developed and used from the
60's, I'd like to say I invented but i feel it was done a long time before me?
I can't remember how I did without them previously.
I have named them 'Thwackers', because of the
niose it can make if it is released & hits you on the knuckles with a thwacking
sound,
I was going to have them produced & even
registered the design, if I can ever find the certificate, I may think of having
them produced again?
Basicly it is a reuseable tie for cables &
whatever that won't damage but hold tightly.
All that is needed is an old even punctured vehicle
tyre inner tube, the best source is at the local garage or tyre fitter/supplier,
they are usualy glad to get rid of them & they are for fee.
Go to the hardware & grab a packet of precut
dowels, about 2" to 3" long or a length to cut down. I find the fluted groove
ones best, but this is just a personel chioce,
Lay the inner tube flat & either use a craft
knife guided by a straight edge, guilotine or scissors & cut across from the
outside to the centre or vise versa, On one of the cut edges, cut a 1/4 to 3/8th
strip off it, to make a circular rubber band. Then tie a 'Girth hitch ['larks
head'] http://www.animatedknots.com/girthrescue/index.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com - http://www.animatedknots.com/girthrescue/index.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com around the centre of the dowel, {as animated on the
site}
This gives you a rubber loop, with a toggle at one
end.
To use the thrwacker hold the toggle in one hand
& wrap the rubber loop, which will go flat, around a bundle of cables, rope
or extention cord.
Then put the loop over the toggle to tightly hold
the bundle or whatever, Depending on the size or number of individual cables or
items, that needs to be tied, you may need to wrap the flat rubber loop around
a number of times to make it tight. After you finished using the cable bundle, it easy to flick
the loop off the toggle & free them up, withour damage to the outer sheath
while held.
If you want the thwacker to look more professional,
paint the dowel black, but it's not needed.
They are good to keep rolled cables either hung up
or stored. Securing cable to a batten or holding a loom on to a pipe, You will
find the uses become endless & very handy, Also you can produce a heap for
next to nothing & they don't leave sticky adhesive residuals that tape
does.
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Joe
Western Gondawandaland
turn right @ Perth.
Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}
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Posted By: GlowWireGuy
Date Posted: 8/07/07 at 3:57pm
Originally posted by Gaafa
thanks for the 'Glowire' alturnative, I'l keep that in mind for the future Linda.
As ELWire is produced there, I guess that Glowire could be made in China cheaper, like every thing else!
The problem for us is it is not stocked localy & is ordered on indent only from theatrical suppliers - So we pay thru the nose anyway.
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Hi,
I sell el wire and while Glowire, aka EL wire or electroluminescent wire is also made in China, the Chinese wire is not nearly as bright. And even the stuff I sell (Lytec wire, the brightest el wire made) is not NEARLY as bright as neon or even LED's. EL wire is perfect for some applications, but it really does need a dark enough environment.
Also, EL wire does not burn out, like a light bulb, but the phosphor molecules crack over time with usage, resulting in a slow dimming effect over time. The statistic I heard was that if you use it for 6 hours/day for 365 days, it will be about half as bright as it started out originally.
And to imagine the el wire itself, it is less like a tube and more like a single-strand speaker wire, but instead of black rubber/plastic shielding on the wire, it is translucent and colored, to allow the light to come through. (It is actually one core wire with two tiny hair-thin wires wrapped around it, then shielding around that.
You would want to avoid repetitive movement of the wire, because those tiny hair-thin wires will break if bent back and forth too many times. So if you do a lariat, you should probably affix the EL wire to something to shape it, as opposed to actually swinging the wire around like a true lariat.
Also, depending on cost, some interesting effects can be achieved using sequencers. For example, you could have a 3-channel sequencer and power three concentric circles, which might lend to a "magic circle" effect. Or 4-channel, or 5-channel or 10-channel, but that would run into come money. You could use the same color for each circle of wire, or different colors, and different effects could be achieved by either having the wires so close they are touching each other, or spaced out to make the effect visible from a greater distance.
As for signs, I have made some of those, but keep the brightness factor in mind, as well as the longevity factor.
Good sign application for EL wire : sign or symbol used outside at night to point the way to your haunted house
Bad sign application for EL wire : sign used in window during the day or in a well-lit area, where you can hardly tell it is lit.
Ok, sorry to butt in, but I was intrigued by the discussion.
-Eric
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Posted By: Gaafa
Date Posted: 8/07/07 at 8:47pm
Welcome Eric, that was great & I'm sure it will certainly help everyone.
I have only been exsposed to the stuff, that was incorporated in a set
piece, as a portal, teaeres & tormentors, but I can see it would
help with the magic circle & the neon sign problem.
Thanks for jumping in, I know I appreciate your input.
Chookas mate!
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Joe
Western Gondawandaland
turn right @ Perth.
Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}
|
Posted By: Gaafa
Date Posted: 8/09/07 at 11:57am
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Linda something I should of remembered at the time for your neon problem is useing 'Cold Cathode Fluro lights;-
http://www.sunbeamtech.com/PRODUCTS/CCFL.HTML - http://www.sunbeamtech.com/PRODUCTS/CCFL.HTML
http://www.pccasegear.com/category5_1.htm - http://www.pccasegear.com/category5_1.htm
Which gives you another option.
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Joe
Western Gondawandaland
turn right @ Perth.
Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}
|
Posted By: Linda S
Date Posted: 8/09/07 at 2:27pm
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Thanks Gaafa,
I liked the EL Wire because it looks so easy to form into the shapes I want. I did put these links in my file in case the El Wire doesn't workout . Can these 'Cold Cathode Fluro lights be formed into shapes?
Thanks for info.
Linda
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Posted By: Gaafa
Date Posted: 8/09/07 at 11:31pm
The cold cathode is a polycarbonate tube & can be shaped into some amazing formations.
From this site you will see it can be bent into sharp right angles;-
. http://www.ccfldirect.com/customlamps.html - http://www.ccfldirect.com/customlamps.htm http://www.ccfldirect.com/customlamps.html - l
It is used in a miriad of archetectural situations.
Being plastic & not glass, s hair druer or heat gun can be used & formed on a template.
However although it is flexable, check with your supliers gruru & ask for a demo & it's limitations before you buy.
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Joe
Western Gondawandaland
turn right @ Perth.
Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}
|
Posted By: Joan54
Date Posted: 8/10/07 at 8:08am
Hi "Glo Wire Guy" and thanks for your honest assessment of the product. I thought it would be brighter and was planning to use it on a fairly well-lit stage but now I am having second thoughts....especially because the stage is not raked. I will probably fins some other use for it but maybe not the "magic circle". Thanks for the input.
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"behind a thin wall of logic panic is waiting to stampede"
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Posted By: Gaafa
Date Posted: 8/20/07 at 12:21am
Joan I found this site by accident, it may fit the bill for your 'magic circle';- http://www.e-lite.com/gallery.htm - http://www.e-lite.com/gallery.htm
There is also 'Glow pain' that could be used with a UV [blacklight] painted on to a rope, that could also work? ;- http://www.glowinc.com/ - http://www.glowinc.com/
"CHOOKAS'
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Joe
Western Gondawandaland
turn right @ Perth.
Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}
|
Posted By: biggertigger
Date Posted: 8/29/07 at 9:51pm
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I found this sight just something too look at for "rope Lights". Or anyother uses.
http://www.thelightingdivision.com/ - http://www.thelightingdivision.com/
http://sales.thelightingdivision.com/c-7-lumacord.aspx - http://sales.thelightingdivision.com/c-7-lumacord.aspx this is called lumacord which lookes like lighted twine rope.
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The two greatest days in a theater persons life, the day you start a new show and the day the damn thing closes.
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Posted By: Madwoman
Date Posted: 5/10/09 at 2:56pm
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We found a circle gobo and shone it on the stage floor, slowly bringing the power up so that as Prospero spoke his incantation it got brighter and brighter. Then Ariel led the enchanted captives into the circle. As the spell dissolved, the light dimmed and then went out. Very nice effect as long as the audience can see the floor of the stage, and cheap and simple,
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Posted By: Madwoman
Date Posted: 5/10/09 at 2:56pm
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clarification--the circle was a ring of light, not a disk.
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