Question for Mr. Pospisil
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URL: http://www.communitytheater.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2177
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Topic: Question for Mr. Pospisil
Posted By: Amos Hart
Subject: Question for Mr. Pospisil
Date Posted: 12/15/06 at 11:57am
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I was searching on YouTube yesterday and found videos of various Tony Award performances, including that of Urinetown. Then I noticed that there were other Urinetown videos posted and so I did a search. There are a lot of clips of Urinetown from community theatre and high school productions.
Apart from the fact that I can't get anyone in my area to stage Urinetown (and it'll be even harder to do now that the Directing/Choreography controversy has erupted) while high schools are doing the show, a question kept banging into my mind: Are these people crazy? Publicly stating they've violated their licensing contract and posting the evidence?
What is the stance of the licensing companies concerning YouTube? Are those theatres in trouble, or are there just too many to go after? Thanks for your time. Craig Gustafson
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Replies:
Posted By: POB14
Date Posted: 12/15/06 at 3:32pm
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I'm not Mr. Pospisil; I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express. I've never stayed at a Holiday Inn Express, for that matter. What's so express about it anyway?
Sorry. Sorry. Anyway:
It may not be "the theatre" doing it. A couple of clips from a local show last summer got posted on YouTube, and got taken down pretty darn fast when some of the powers that be got wind of it. It could just be a friend/parent who taped the show and wanted to share. ------------- POB Old Bugger, Curmudgeon, and Antisocial B**tard |
Posted By: Amos Hart
Date Posted: 12/15/06 at 5:31pm
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I'm sure it's not the theatre that's doing the posting; they'd have to be insane.
But it's the theatre that's doing/allowing the videotaping, and whoever gets a copy & posts it is apparently not aware that it's like spending counterfeit money at a casino -- not very bright on their part and pointing a huge finger at the counterfeiters.
Whoever is doing the posting, the taping itself is illegal and I'm wondering what the licensers think about the wealth of Contract Violation evidence popping up. Are they going to make examples of the theatres or are there just too many to deal with?
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Posted By: jayzehr
Date Posted: 12/16/06 at 11:02am
| We absolutely never allow any videotaping and of course people can get really ticked off. However, for the sake of conversation, what is the reasoning behind prohibiting videotaping? Whatever the rules, they predate the internet and Youtube. Obviously, you wouldn't want someone taping or filming a play and somehow selling it but no one is making money off of a clip of a high school play on Youtube. It actually might be serving as promotion of the script. On the other hand, is the reasoning that the right's holders don't have artistic control of the final product? But then they certainly don't have control over the quality of the amateur stage version that is being taped. Regardless, with the cult of technology now it seems to me you're swimming against a pretty gigantic tide to try and prevent family and friends from trying to document little Suzie's big moment in the spotlight. For all I know, people could have taped and youtubed portions of our shows and we'd have no idea. They can do it with a cell for crying out loud. Are we expected to be scouring Youtube for clips of our shows? Should we have someone monitoring the audience at all times? Then if you do catch someone taping, what do you do? Interupt the show by confronting them immediately? Do you just tell them to stop or do you insist that Grandma turn over the tape or erase it on the spot to make sure it doesn't get to the internet? |
Posted By: jayzehr
Date Posted: 12/16/06 at 11:26am
So I got paranoid and went to Youtube and started searching on the last three plays I produced and/or directed. I about had a heart attack because on the little thumbnail pictures one clip looked like it was our show but it turned out to be a high school production. Anyway, in ten minutes I found clips form around 20 some different productions. (Actually, I wish I had seen clips like these before I directed because I saw a number of ideas I would have borrowed )
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Posted By: Amos Hart
Date Posted: 12/16/06 at 11:30am
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Ok, but the propriety or logic of taping is a side issue. It's a flat-out contract violation. When you sign on to produce a show, you agree in writing not to tape a show or allow any taping. Whether you agree or not philosophically, you're the one who signed the contract; nobody forced you. If you do it or allow it, you're in violation of what you agreed in writing to do. So I'm not debating that point.
I'm not questioning if violating the contract is right or wrong. It's wrong. If you ask the licenser what you're supposed to do about Grandma, they will say, "Not our problem; it's yours. Don't tape."
What I'm asking is: what is the position of the licensing companies toward all the evidence on YouTube of contract violation?
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Posted By: dboris
Date Posted: 12/16/06 at 1:08pm
The main reason, from what I understand, that videotaping is not permitted is because it's not something that the rights houses are in a position to allow you to do. The rights houses represent the author(s) of the show when someone wants to present a live production of thier show, but they generally do not control rights for any other purpose, for example video. If you wanted to get permission to tape a show it would probably have to go all the way back to the author for permission to be granted. Dan |
Posted By: tristanrobin
Date Posted: 12/16/06 at 9:33pm
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Obviously, the tapes are illegal. There are also MANY MANY clips of Broadway productions on youtube...LOL - I think if you persevered, you could watch the entire productions of "Wicked" and "Avenue Q" on youtube. LOL
If youtube catches the clips, they take them down...but, face it, there are tens of thousands (hundreds?) of clips on youtube. It takes a long time to find these things! That said, some licensing corporations will give permission (for a fee). I know Rogers and Hammerstein Library does, and Tams Witmark does for a few plays - not all. I think it all comes down to the kind of rights that were purchased originally. |
Posted By: jayzehr
Date Posted: 12/17/06 at 2:54am
I get a little tired of the lectures on here. Yeah I know about the contract, nobody forced me to sign it and I wasn't advocating breaking it. I clearly said I do not allow taping. |
Posted By: Shatcher
Date Posted: 12/18/06 at 10:59am
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Utube is pretty new I would guess the rights houses are still tring to find a way to deal with it. Yes taping is wrong blah blah blah, however it may be in the intrest of both house and playwrite to allow some of that, it is a great way for people to see a scene or 2 from a show rather than pass the show over because they do not want to buy a copy. It also gets a show like Ave Q a wider audience, not all of us get to NYC to see all the shows we like.
I am not saying lets all tape and post, I am only saying that maybe the rights houses should consider letting people post small clips. no only to promote the show but also the play.
just my 2 cents
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Posted By: B-M-D
Date Posted: 12/18/06 at 3:18pm
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Here's my take on the taping thing: While it's clearly illegal to do so (without permission) I think that the pub houses should allow it for the purposes of a. archiving and b. for indivdual performers and production staff personal use. No one is going to make money from a ct production even if the cast were to pay a few bucks for a copy of the show. Now if a ct wanted to sell copies of it to the audience that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish. ------------- BD 
"Dying is easy, comedy is hard." |
Posted By: claning
Date Posted: 1/05/07 at 9:32am
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Sorry to resurect an old thread but I thought this was relevant. A new theatrical rights company, Theatrical Rights Worldwide, has attempted to secure for each of their properties, the right for a community theatre organization to make an archival copy AND a copy available to every participant in the production. There are conditions. Only one official videotaping can be done and announcements must be made forbidding other recordings and it cannot be sold or made into a purchasable souvenir (Duh). But it sounds like this group is really trying to change how things are done. We interviewed them for our podcast which will be available on January 8th. They explain the videotaping process and much more about the company. ------------- Chris Laning, Co-Host "Your Neighborhood Stage" Podcast http://www.NeighborhoodStage.com chris@neighborhoodstage.com |
Posted By: Mike Polo
Date Posted: 1/05/07 at 10:19am
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That's good information, Chris, maybe the big guys will take a look at their new contracts and see about adding that kind of clause. Do you have a URL on TRW? ------------- Mike Polo Community Theater Green Room http://www.communitytheater.org http://www.twitter.com/CTGreenRoom"> 
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Posted By: suzecue1
Date Posted: 1/05/07 at 11:42am
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This is great news! An up and coming company! I found their website. They are small - but have some good shows available. http://www.theatricalrights.com/index.aspx - http://www.theatricalrights.com/index.aspx and a press release: http://www.theatricalrights.com/press/trw-release-10-10-2006.pdf - http://www.theatricalrights.com/press/trw-release-10-10-2006.pdf ------------- Sue ***** So many hats.....so few heads! |
Posted By: tristanrobin
Date Posted: 1/07/07 at 9:51am
| That's so cool - they have one of my favorite musicals, "Charlotte Sweet," available. Maybe now more people will produce it! |
Posted By: CPospisil
Date Posted: 2/13/07 at 5:03pm
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Well, first of all, I'm embarassed for being so long in checking in and finding this question. Especially, when I've been given my own topic, as it were! I'll try to be better in the future. Video taping . . . the perennial question. There are multiple responses to this issue. The first is that, in general, the play publishers do not handle these rights. Video and film rights are reserved by the author or copyright holder (an important distinction), and are not included in the contracts that we have with our authors. Another element here is that film and video rights are considered the same. So if Paramount Pictures buys the film rights to a play - for the sake of argument let's say one of mine (I should be so lucky!). Paramount decides to turn my play SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN into a movie. They buy the film and video rights from me. Note the use of the word "buy." They buy and own the rights. I don't own that part of my copyright any longer (unless there's some time period or reversal in the contract.) This allows Paramount to make a movie of my play . . . and change whatever they want, because they own it, and after it's long and extremely lucrative run in movie theaters around the world (uh-huh), they then begin to distribute copies of the movie on video (ahem, I mean DVDs) and make millions more. So you may want to film your production of SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN, but Dramatists Play Service can't give you the right to do so - they never had the rights. And I can't really give you permission - because I sold the rights. Now, if . . . I mean, since Paramount has NOT bought the movie rights to my play, I can still grant you permission to make an archival copy, or a copy so the lead can send a copy to his grandmother, etc., etc. Now, as to YouTube and posting bootleg videos there . . . yes, it's illegal, and a good way to get caught. I recently found video from a performance of THE LARAMIE PROJECT online that had been done at a school in Canada. A student taped it and put it on YouTube. I contacted the school, and the video's came down a day later. Yes, there is the potential to get in trouble, and the evidence is easy to find. I can go to YouTube and search for any particular title and see if someone has violated the terms of their license. Then it gets messy. A friend of mine actually just discovered a short play of his video taped and on the internet. He was flattered . . . but made them take it down. The answer here (as always) is ASK. Ask for permission, and get that permission in writing (if granted). Some agents and authors will allow archival copies to be made. ARCHIVAL copies. Not copies for distribution on the internet. Because that's what it is, illegal distribution of copyrighted material So, don't make me track you down and send you a mean note. Don't put videos on YouTube or elsewhere on the internet. (And now, I think I'll go search for SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN on YouTube!!!) Craig
------------- Craig Pospisil Dramatists Play Service |