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subtle way to uncast

Printed From: Community Theater Green Room
Category: Producing Theater
Forum Name: Directing
Forum Discription: For questions about handling shows, actors, crew, board members, children ...or do we repeat ourselves?
URL: http://www.communitytheater.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2113
Printed Date: 5/04/24 at 7:44am
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Topic: subtle way to uncast
Posted By: Nanette
Subject: subtle way to uncast
Date Posted: 11/09/06 at 7:28am

I'm looking for a "gentle" way to approach a parent and ask if she actually intends to have her children show up for a production.  WHAT?!  Okay ... here's the situation.

We're in rehearsal now for a show and she's kept her children from rehearsals once for "too much homework" (one gets 10 minutes a night ... the other nothing ~ I've checked with the school on this) and twice because one has an ear infection.  I've tried calling, but her phone has been disconnected.  It's not a matter of recasting as 1)there is no one else and 2)their parts are small so I can easily reassign the lines they have. 

Should I just drop the kids from the program?  I suppose I could have the librarian (Shall I call her Marian Paroo?), who sees everyone and I'm sure would be willing, to speak with Mom?  There's no AD who could do this and I barely have time to breathe, let alone track this woman down.

Oh, and we open in less than a month.  (And, no, they will never be cast in a future production.) 



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In a world of margarine, be butter!



Replies:
Posted By: suzecue1
Date Posted: 11/09/06 at 8:07am

Ah, the joys of working with little ones (and their parents)! LOL

I wouldn't panic about his until say - tech week? But if they are that unreliable, and you can't get in touch with her, I would assign the lines to another cast member who is dependable and shows up to rehearsals.  Of course it would be better if you could contact her first and warn her if they have one more unexcused absense, that the lines will be given to someone else.  Tell her why......that it is imperative at this point that the cast members with lines be there and say their lines, with the blocking, for the benefit of the whole cast and the flow of the show.

If the programs must go to print already, then leave their names in the program. Normal patrons won't relate the character name to the kid speaking anyway. I always try to wait until the very last minute to print the programs, so I can add those last minute additions, deletions, and thank you's. It NEVER fails. someone new always ends up helping me out tech week, and I swear I couldn't have lived without them.

Be prepared though, that if she does decide to start attending rehearsals, and finds out that her "little darlings" lines have been given to someone else, she will be upset and likely pull them out of the show altogether. I would imagine that this would be of no big loss to you or the show.    There are no small parts only small actors.



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Sue
*****
So many hats.....so few heads!


Posted By: B-M-D
Date Posted: 11/09/06 at 8:39am
Dump 'em quick and dump 'em now. No second or third chances.  If they question why tell them the truth as courtiously as possible.   You need to get on with your show with people that want to do it.   You don't need the worry and distraction.    Sounds cruel but I think dealing with or getting rid of problems early usually works out best for the production. 

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BD

"Dying is easy, comedy is hard."


Posted By: POB14
Date Posted: 11/09/06 at 9:25am

They've only missed three rehearsals?  Out of how many?  Well, only you know if there is really a problem or not.  Assuming that there is:

Subtlety does not work with parents.   I've worked with kids a dozen different ways -- shows, coaching, umpiring Little League, teaching Law Day programs -- and I tell you again:  subtlety does not work with parents.  Certain parents are, I believe, people also, and when they are being people, logic and normal forms of communication do work.  But when they are being parents, they are not people, they are parents, and they don't listen.

I guarantee you, the other kids are watching this and saying to each other, "Why don't Muffy and Poindexter have to come to rehearsal?"  Bad situation for all concerned.

Tell them straight out (by letter if necessary): "I'm sorry, but as with all activities, because your children cannot commit the time necessary to prepare for this show, they will not be allowed to participate.  Please enjoy the show as our guest."  That's what a football coach would do, that's what the Math Club would do, and that's what you should do.



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POB
Old Bugger, Curmudgeon, and Antisocial B**tard


Posted By: suzecue1
Date Posted: 11/09/06 at 10:11am
Originally posted by POB14

They've only missed three rehearsals?  Out of how many?  Well, only you know if there is really a problem or not.  Assuming that there is:

Subtlety does not work with parents.   I've worked with kids a dozen different ways -- shows, coaching, umpiring Little League, teaching Law Day programs -- and I tell you again:  subtlety does not work with parents.  Certain parents are, I believe, people also, and when they are being people, logic and normal forms of communication do work.  But when they are being parents, they are not people, they are parents, and they don't listen.

I guarantee you, the other kids are watching this and saying to each other, "Why don't Muffy and Poindexter have to come to rehearsal?"  Bad situation for all concerned.

Tell them straight out (by letter if necessary): "I'm sorry, but as with all activities, because your children cannot commit the time necessary to prepare for this show, they will not be allowed to participate.  Please enjoy the show as our guest."  That's what a football coach would do, that's what the Math Club would do, and that's what you should do.

POB14 - I could not agree more with you! However, I would still make an attempt to warn first, give a chance to see the err in their ways, and then proceed with plan B.  Nanette lives in a small town, I don't want her to get a reputation for being a tyrant! The kids in her cast (and the parents) are inexperienced about shows and the time commitment it takes.  If she can contact the mother then she will have covered her bases.  Unfortuneately, I have been there, same situation, even the same show.  The parent that I had to confront was a mouthy "you know what", and proceeded to try and blacken my name, lying saying she wasn't told the rules - didn't know about the time commitment, how could I hurt her kids like this, etc. It didn't work, I have a good reputation as a director, but in my honest opinion. tis is best to cover all the bases.

 



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Sue
*****
So many hats.....so few heads!


Posted By: JShieldsIowa
Date Posted: 11/09/06 at 10:33am

Doing theatre in a college town we get many students who come up the homework excuse for quite a few rehearsals.  I came to the point about 3 years ago that I type up a list of "cast expectations" and hand those out at auditions, the first read through and send it out in a cast e-mail the first week of rehearsals.  In it I say something to the effect that "if cast every cast and crew member is expected to attend all rehearsals and meetings he/she is called for.  In the case of multiple absences and extensive conflicts cast members may be removed from scenes and/or removed from the production entirely."  I make sure I speak to the offending party twice about it - once in person and once via e-mail - because I like to have hard copy proof that to show the board or producer that I spoke with the person about the issue.  If the problem continues I give the board and producer a heads of what I'm going to do and then make sure a board member or another person from the production staff there when I speak with the person.  If the person doesn't show up and the decision has to be made quickly, I assign the parts to someone else and mess around with waiting. 

If someone wants to black ball you - you sometimes can't avoid that.  I would try to safegaurd myself from that - but your one of your biggest concerns should be that the show is the best it can be.  It's not fair to the rest of the cast, crew, orchestra (if applicable) to not have as many cast members at rehearsals as possible.

If "homework" is an issue - you could offer (I've done this) to let the child work on homework during his/her downtime at rehearsal.  Invite the parent to come to the rehearsals and work on the homework with the child in another room. 



Posted By: Theatrestation
Date Posted: 11/09/06 at 10:33am

"Too much homework" as an excuse when you know there is not is a warning sign that the parent is not committed. Also, if one child has an ear infection that should not effect the other's attendance. She needs to be told this, and it needs to be clear that if she can not meet the expectations of regular attendance perhaps this is not the right activity for her family to be involved in. It's never good to turn away people who want to be involved EXCEPT when their involvement has the potential to cause problems for the entire production. 

Good Luck,

Susan



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http://www.castbuilding.com
http://www.theatrestation.com


Posted By: Topper
Date Posted: 11/09/06 at 11:05am

I'm also a parent and am actively involved in theater with my kids. 

"Too much homework" can also translate into a parent's plight: "I'm too busy." 

The phone being disconnected also says to ME; "I've got other, more important issues I'm trying to deal with right now."

Is this a single mom?  Maybe the dad work evenings?  Is she having financial difficulties?  Is lugging her children to rehearsals something she has the time to do (after making sure they're fed dinner, dressed appropriately, finished their homework, etc. etc)?  Are there other smaller children in the household who can't be left alone while mom drives back and forth from rehearsal?   Does her work schedule depend on the older kids being around to help out with the younger ones?

All I'm saying is:  you don't know what this mom's home situation might be.  It's possible this parent is simply over-booked.  Haven't we all been there at some time?  Our jobs, our families, our prior commitments -- all prevent us from doing other activities that we enjoy.

If you want to do this mom a favor, I suggest offering a ride-share solution with another family who might live nearby.  This mom might be glad to have her children picked up and dropped off without the added chore of transporting them herself.

Good luck!



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"None of us really grow up. All we ever do is learn how to behave in public." -- Keith Johnstone


Posted By: Nanette
Date Posted: 11/09/06 at 12:43pm

Thanks to everyone for your suggestions and advice.  It is a small town and people do 'see and hear' everything that everyone else does.  Most of the kids walk or ride their bikes right past this particular family's home on their way to rehearsal and mention to me that "Muffy and Poindexter" (love that one POB) are outside playing or out riding their bikes.  It's just lazy parenting and setting a bad example for the children that's an issue. 

I'll try once again to contact these parents and see if they are still interested in even having their children in the production.  If they are, I'll tell them that the kids need to be there from now on.  We only have 7 more rehearsals, for goodness sake.

I've never had problems like this before I moved to "small town USA" because it was the children who were interested in taking part, not the parents just wanting their kids to be involved in 'something else'.  (hmmmm .... that could translate to free babysitting, couldn't it)



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In a world of margarine, be butter!


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 11/09/06 at 2:28pm

I work with the kiddies, too--but at jr and sr high level.  I put a line in the contract I require all parents and kids to sign that homework is not an excuse to be removed.

I also indicate that although this is an extra-curricular activity, all cast members are expected to keep their grades up and do homework or work on lines and characterization when they are not working with the production staff.

I have a thought that perhaps the children in question are struggling in school and mom has thrown an ultimatum--you can't go back to drama until your grades go up.

Just a thought--but I also agree with POB that it could be financial reasons or the mom is just too busy and over-committed.

Hope it works out well.



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Posted By: eveharrington
Date Posted: 11/09/06 at 3:09pm
under most circumstances I would agree w/ B.M.D. to get rid of them fast. Of course the overall quality of the show is the most important thing to the direcor, but these sound like very small children. It gives me pause because I wouldn't want to punish them for something they likely have no say in. If you have no choice you have no choice, I just think it's a shame the kids will miss out because of whatever reason the mother has decided it's not a priority.

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"If nothing else, there's applause... like waves of love pouring over the footlights."


Posted By: castMe
Date Posted: 11/09/06 at 4:58pm
Drop 'em

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Investigate. Imagine. Choose.


Posted By: Linda S
Date Posted: 11/10/06 at 8:22am

Kids know what is fair and right. If it is not fair to give these kids special treatment, you are going to have trouble with the rest of the kids in the cast, if not now, later. I know that it sounds terrible, but it is probably the best for the show, the cast, the kids and their mom to drop them. I had to let a young cast member go once. He was slightly older then these children, but still a kid. I was clear about when he needed to be at rehearsals. I called and left messages numerous times. The other cast members said he wasn't sick. After a couple of weeks of not hearing from him, I let the kid who had been doing his lines have them. That was fair. That's when he finally showed up and wanted his part back. I know the other kids told him at school. I can't imagine how much respect I would have lost if I had let him back in the cast. The kids would not have seen it as second chance, but that it wasn't fair. Anyway, I told him maybe next time. I didn't hold his past against him at the next auditions. He did deserve a second chance then. He came to all the rehearsals for that show. I think it has to be about the bigger picture, and setting standards that are clear and fair for everyone not just the person you are having trouble with. It just makes it easier in the long run.  . . Okay, end of soapbox rant from the fifth grade teacher.

Linda



Posted By: B-M-D
Date Posted: 11/10/06 at 9:07am
Originally posted by Linda S

I didn't hold his past against him at the next auditions. He did deserve a second chance then. He came to all the rehearsals for that show. I think it has to be about the bigger picture, and setting standards that are clear and fair for everyone not just the person you are having trouble with. It just makes it easier in the long run.  . . Okay, end of soapbox rant from the fifth grade teacher.

Linda

I think you got lucky with this kid giving him another chance with another show.   I'm generally of the once burned philosphy....   But you definitely did the right thing the first time.



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BD

"Dying is easy, comedy is hard."


Posted By: Linda S
Date Posted: 11/10/06 at 9:41am

He was a kid. I would probably not be so forgiving with an adult.

L.



Posted By: red diva
Date Posted: 11/10/06 at 2:36pm
Speaking as a long-time teacher, if you crack down hard at the first sign of trouble (in a kind way, of course.....I'm not a Nazi), it establishes your authority and sets the course for the rest of the class/rehearsal time.  Obviously, though, you have to let your rules and policies be known at the outset so that the kids know what you expect of them.  Most of the time, the offender gets the message and when he/she comes back asking for a second chance, I'm willing to give it.  BUT....burn me a second time?????  Two strikes and you're out!

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"I've worked long and hard to earn the right to be called Diva!"


Posted By: Kathy S
Date Posted: 11/10/06 at 4:21pm

I have a situation with an adult (?) woman that I recruited into my show.  I laid out the expectations on the audition form, she signed it, and we started rehearsals.  And last night she missed for the third time.  The first two times she called me with an "excuse", but last night she just didn't show up.  Finally she text messaged another cast member an excuse!  If I had ANYBODY else in mind to take her part I'd get rid of her, but I'm over a barrel.

I feel personally wronged, too, because I have calling her every night to offer her a ride to rehearsals since we live near each other. Yesterday when I called her she declined a ride saying that she would get herself there since she would be done earlier then me.  THEN SHE DIDN'T EVEN SHOW UP!

I'm not really asking for advice (aside from an answer to "what do I say to her to get her cooperation from now on?") I can't really do anything.  I recruited her because we suffer a shortage of people that want to be onstage and young people especially.  (She's about 20).  So I can't replace her. I don't really want to.  But what if I just said to her, "You know, Amy, I need to know that you are going to be at every rehearsal from now on.  Maybe you didn't understand how important your attendance is.  And if you didn't it's my fault for not making that clear enough, but now I need to know that you will be there every time you are scheduled for a rehearsal."



Posted By: suzecue1
Date Posted: 11/10/06 at 5:45pm

It is very interesting how different directors handle cast members who don't show up to all the rehearsals. I am co-directing "The Christmas Schooner". 20+ people in my cast, mostly adults, and a few kids. It opens 2 weeks from today. We have not had everyone at any one rehearsal yet. I am not panicing. Not yet anyway, maybe next week I'll plan that, about Thursday, I will write it in my day planner.

I do make statements about how important it is to be at rehearsal, how the other cast members need everyone there for blocking and cues, etc. How distracting it is to be talking to blank space when that person is gone. It says very clearly on the audition forms that only tech week rehearsals are mandatory. I may take the advise to have the cast sign something saying they understand what is expected of them for my next show. I personally feel like CT directors have to be very flexible with people. Everyone has a different level of commitment, different work ethics. Things happen. I know they all want to be involved or they wouldn't have auditioned. I also think that you can not force people to match your commitment level, and if you try, it will turn them off and this is supposed to be fun - right?

If someone was to miss a couple of rehearsals I would call them and find out why.  Tell them I missed them, and remind them how important it is for them to be there, offer a ride if need be. But I wouldn't just dump them. When I was a new director I used to get very upset because people did not have the same amount of committment as I did. I have mellowed. Now I realize that people have lives, jobs, family committments, other hobbies. I do still want to be told if someone is going to be absent. So I can plan around it, but I wouldn't drop someone who misses a couple of rehearsals and doesn't tell me they will be gone. Talk to them first, find out whats going on, then make the decision together whether they should continue.

 



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Sue
*****
So many hats.....so few heads!


Posted By: eveharrington
Date Posted: 11/10/06 at 6:36pm
We definitly miss rehearsals around here, I mean it is a CT most of us have to be paid for something, but you know about it ahead of time and it's expected that if your job or another commitment is interfering that it will be minimal. You put possible conflicts on the audition form so the director can decide if they can be worked around. I would NOT however put up with an actor who just didn't feel like coming to rehearsal. They may not think they need to be there but it's not their call to make and it hurts the rest of the cast.

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"If nothing else, there's applause... like waves of love pouring over the footlights."


Posted By: Playwright
Date Posted: 11/10/06 at 9:09pm
I'm probably going to open a can of worms by saying this but why is it that actors are 'forgiven' for having lives and missing rehearsals? We directors put hours of work into a play even before rehearsals begin, we are usually one of the first to arrive and the last to leave and barring being seriously ill we never miss a rehearsal.  Maybe somebody can explain this to me.


Posted By: eveharrington
Date Posted: 11/11/06 at 8:53pm
Originally posted by Playwright

I'm probably going to open a can of worms by saying this but why is it that actors are 'forgiven' for having lives and missing rehearsals? We directors put hours of work into a play even before rehearsals begin, we are usually one of the first to arrive and the last to leave and barring being seriously ill we never miss a rehearsal. Maybe somebody can explain this to me.


I don't know how it is there but around here the director sets the rehearsal schedule. Makes it pretty easy for them to be available.

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"If nothing else, there's applause... like waves of love pouring over the footlights."


Posted By: Playwright
Date Posted: 11/11/06 at 9:47pm
That's true.  I set my rehearsal schedule even before I audition. That way I can make everybody aware of the commitment level of each role.   And those I cast then can work their lives around the dates they know they are required. ANd they can tell me their conflicts before we even start rehearsals.  And I am flexibl to changing things up if all those involved are in favour of the change. I just wonder why it is that some actors feel that they aren't requried to put in the same commiment level as the director. I think that's why I try to do plays with small cast sizes-six or less.  I just sense so much frustration out there.  And I know,there's not an easy fix to this and it's all part of being in theatre.  I think I need to go out for a drink with a few of my theatre friends.  Bring on the vodka coolers or red wine.


Posted By: jayzehr
Date Posted: 11/11/06 at 10:16pm
A lot of it has to do with the director. If actors know or sense that an absence will not be tolerated and that they will be replaced, they will rearrange their schedules and be at all rehearsals no matter what just the same way that they rearrange their schedule to be at all performances no matter what. However, if actors realize they will be allowed to miss rehearsals they will start doing so. I've been involved in plays where no one in a lage cast missed one rehearsal and in others where there was not one night when everyone was there, including dress rehearsal. Same community theater, different directors.


Posted By: eveharrington
Date Posted: 11/11/06 at 11:44pm
I agree it depends a lot on the director. Please don't get the idea that I'm defending skipping rehearsals, far from it. I'm just not going to deny the fact that I have occasionally been late or even had to miss a rehearsal because of work. It doesn't happen often and I always let the director know ahead of time. I do not feel like the fact that I'm not in a position to lose a paying day job for a non-paying theater job demonstrates a lack of commitment. I know that a lot of people have this problem including some directors I have worked with, scheduling is just one of the many things that makes community theater the adventure we all know and love.

Also, ahem, any community theater actor worth their salt dedicates quite a few hours of "personal time" to memorization and character work. Just saying.

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"If nothing else, there's applause... like waves of love pouring over the footlights."


Posted By: Kathy S
Date Posted: 11/12/06 at 1:20am

I didn't even make the rehearsal schedule until I gave the cast the opportunity to write themselves out of all previously scheduled dates.  Then I could make the schedule and not have any conflicts.  I am willing to bend, mold, rearrange MY OWN schedule to match whatever they say they will do.  So that's why I'm hacked off when somebody doesn't show up because they found something better to do that night.

By the way, the young woman in question came up to me as soon as she saw me today and aplogized in front of another cast member.  I pulled her aside so as not to include any one else in the conversation and told her that I needed to know that I could count on her to be at all of the remaining rehearsals.  I guess we'll see.



Posted By: Linda S
Date Posted: 11/12/06 at 8:59am

I do what Kathy does. I make a tentative schedule then ask the cast to give me all of their conflicts at the first rehearsal. I adjust the schedule and we have a calendar that we stick to. I even put in snow dates for rehearsing in the winter months. I tell them I hate wasting time: theirs and mine. I promise them that if they are called to rehearsal they will rehearse. On the flip side I ask them to let me know as soon as possible if something comes up so I can adjust the schedule.

Linda



Posted By: suzecue1
Date Posted: 11/12/06 at 9:44am

I do all that too. State a general idea of rehearsal days at auditions, and then at read thru ask for them to bring their calendars and mark off the days they have conflicts.  Then I can schedule upcoming rehearsals by act and scene, and if someone can't be there, I schedule a scene they are not in the night they have the conflict. If they are not in a scene they don't have to attend. But later on, closer to opening, when we are running the full show, it never fails, people get sick, work schedules gets changed, someone has an wedding anniversary that they don't dare put off until after the show, etc. I think it is important to be flexible, and it is frustrating, but what do you do? Our show opens in two weeks and now, one of my leads has been appointed to a town board that meets on Wednesdays, so we lose him on Wednesdays until dress rehearsal. Now, I don't think his town meeting is that important, I think the show should come first but I can't force him to attend.

I think the smaller CT's are at a major disadvantage here.  Less warm bodies to choose from. We are lucky to have enough people at auditions to cast the show without having to beat the bushes for a cast. So, we have to be flexible.  I am not a "softy" director, but I also can't afford to tick anyone off by insisting they must choose the rehearsal over something else important to them. Often the people who are outgoing enough to be involved in a CT, are also the ones who are on other boards, in other community organizations, all of us burning the candle at both ends and in the middle.  The show still goes on and is fabulous.

 

 

 

 

 



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Sue
*****
So many hats.....so few heads!


Posted By: JShieldsIowa
Date Posted: 11/13/06 at 1:19pm
suzecue - good point about smaller CTs.  I always think of everyone being in a bigger town doing CT, but that's obviously not the case at all times!  I think it is a give and take situation.  The director needs to be upfront with rehearsal scheduling and the director also needs to get the conflict information from the cast and be flexible with the scheduling.  Honestly, if you don't have much of a pool to chose from - you might have to deal such things.  In my case, I'm in a pretty active arts town - so we can always recruit and rework some casting issues.  If you're in a town of 10,000 - you probably don't have that choice. 


Posted By: Juror #3
Date Posted: 12/12/06 at 12:52pm
I know many will agree with you, Topper, but I find the whole thing rather annoying.  Parents allow their kids to audition when they must reasonably know what their current schedules will allow.  It doesn't take a genius to look at show dates, hear or read what the director's expectations are, and make an intelligent decision before this whole situation erupts.  As a director, I do not feel it is my job to work out car pools, homework schedules, and so on for people in my cast or their parents.  It seems to me that too many parents just won't say "No" to their kids and expect everyone else to accomodate them, as though the desire to participate is the only obligation necessary on their end.  Frankly, I tend to stay away from kids shows for that reason (I taught for 30 1/2 years and had no choice but to put up with it).  I have been in shows, though, where parents seem oblivious to the notion of being responsible which has meant their kids have been, too. 

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Juror #3


Posted By: Nanette
Date Posted: 12/13/06 at 8:57am
Ah, the joys of working with children!  I was finally able to get in touch with the parent of the children I originally posted about and they ended up NOT doing the show (not a big loss).  I also had a group of older girls miss two rehearsals during hell week because of sports, and another child (a Herdman, no less) miss our last rehearsal because of holiday photos!  Oh well!
 
I agree w/ Juror #3 that it is not the responsibility of the director to arrange carpools, homework, meals, bedtimes, illness, family photos, etc.  That belongs to the parents.  In my case, this was the first opportunity the children here had of ever doing theatre and they all wanted a chance to give it a try.  I give them a hand for wanting to try something new.  I've always worked with children and will continue to do so, but I've learned a lot about working with this group, though.  My shows will have fewer children; it will be understood from day one that missing X number of rehearsals will mean recasting with an understudy; and parents will "volunteer" their time working backstage, taking tickets, etc. 
 
I already have a dozen kids who want to be in the next production, and the town is screaming for more, so it's on with the show.


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In a world of margarine, be butter!


Posted By: avcastner
Date Posted: 1/19/07 at 3:35pm
Originally posted by suzecue1

I personally feel like CT directors have to be very flexible with people. Everyone has a different level of commitment, different work ethics. Things happen. I know they all want to be involved or they wouldn't have auditioned. I also think that you can not force people to match your commitment level, and if you try, it will turn them off and this is supposed to be fun - right?

 
CT is not just a hobby.  It's not like you're making a bird  house that no one will see.  It's not like an embroidery project you can put on a shelf when you're too busy and finish it years later.
 
CT affects not only every company member but also the reputation of the theatre.  If cast members can't commit, it hurts everyone.
 
While I hate the confrontations this can cause as well as the stress of finding replacement actors, it's important that everyone involved in a show is not only committed to performing their role properly, but to being part of the team that produces a great play.


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Posted By: eveharrington
Date Posted: 1/27/07 at 12:05am
CT is a hobby, people do it for free because they enjoy it. I do think it requires a much bigger commitment than a solo hobby because everything AV said about the rest of the company and theater reputation being affected by what you do is true. If someone can't put forth the commitment required for acting or directing or producing then they shouldn't pretend that they can, it's selfish and there are plenty of ways to be involved with productions that only require a couple of hours a month. CT's need ushers, and ticket takers, and prop people, and dressers, and makeup help, and a million other things that they only need for tech week and performances. I understand how disappointing it is to just not have time for the thing you really want to do, but that's life. CT is also a wonderful learning ground for a lot of people and they aren't helped by watching people get by with things that wouldn't fly for a second in a pro setting.

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"If nothing else, there's applause... like waves of love pouring over the footlights."


Posted By: Nanette
Date Posted: 1/27/07 at 6:19am
(I'm posting to my original post ... how weird is that?!)
 
Anyway ... I've taken some of your imput and made it a point to tell the cast and their parents (it's a children's theatre) that if they miss 3 rehearsals ... with a good excuse or not! ... they'll be replaced.  It doesn't help the others if they are not there, it doesn't help me, it doesn't make for a good show.  They parents didn't have a problem with it at all.  They're all on board with it.  Many actually mentioned that it's about time we have something for the kids that's run more professionally and they themselves have volunteered to work the show in various areas from sets, to costumes, to ticket takers, to stage manager!  Just because it's "community" theatre doesn't mean that it can't be run "professionally".


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In a world of margarine, be butter!


Posted By: falstaff29
Date Posted: 1/27/07 at 10:57pm
Is CT a hobby?  To steal a line from a Fellini film: "I'm too serious to be an amateur, but not enough to be a professional."  That's how I approach theater, and that's how I think it should be approached.  Unfortunately, this is not the only view of CT- there is a competing approach- the "aw, shucks" work ethic, where if everyone in the show is having some sort of fun, it doesn't matter how little you work at it.  Guess what?  Those companies produce crap.  If you demand a high standard for your shows, maybe some people will quit (or get fired), but those who stick with you will appreciate the end result much more.


Posted By: eveharrington
Date Posted: 1/29/07 at 12:04am
falstaff, I don't want to fight with you, but there is a lot of room between obsession and aw shucks who cares. A community theater is just that, for the community, not just for people who are Serious about theater. I happen to be very committed as well but you can't force everyone to operate at the same level as you. Thats what classes and professional theater are for.

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"If nothing else, there's applause... like waves of love pouring over the footlights."


Posted By: B-M-D
Date Posted: 1/29/07 at 11:54am
Originally posted by eveharrington

falstaff, I don't want to fight with you, but there is a lot of room between obsession and aw shucks who cares. A community theater is just that, for the community, not just for people who are Serious about theater. I happen to be very committed as well but you can't force everyone to operate at the same level as you. Thats what classes and professional theater are for.
 
 
Perhaps falstaff's response is a bit harsh but it's nonetheless true I think.  It's the garbage in, garbage out theory.    I think people need to seek out ct's that are compatiable with the level of committment they are willing to bring. 


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BD

"Dying is easy, comedy is hard."


Posted By: eveharrington
Date Posted: 1/30/07 at 1:51am
Alright, I'm getting fired up now so let me just say it's the issue not the people I'm getting mad at. That being said, I'd sure like to know where you two live that there are infinite CT's to choose from and you can just look for the perfect match. I don't like putting out crap either, nonetheless, if we put out crap that our community views and enjoys, then we were successful as a COMMUNITY theater. Doing a show where everyone is available all the time and possesses professional level talent is icing on the cake. Or so I assume because that would never actually happen.

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"If nothing else, there's applause... like waves of love pouring over the footlights."


Posted By: suzecue1
Date Posted: 1/30/07 at 9:37am
Thanks Eve! I couldn't have said it better!   I also was a little frustrated when I was quoted at the top of this page.  The part that was cut from my post was incomplete and made me sound like I didn't care.  Truly I do care - and I put on the best shows possible with the people I have to work with.  Small towns CT's just don't have the numbers to draw from.  9 times out of 10 you have to fit the 9 people who show up to auditions into the 10 characters you have to cast.  LOL Get it? Not enough to even cast the show - much less pick the perfect person, with a perfect level of commitment, for each part. You just take them as you get them!
 
It took me a couple of trys at directing before I realized that it did no good to get frustrated because people didn't work as hard as I did, or commit the same amount of time that I did. It just seldom happens that way and you have to work with the situation you are given. Once in a while you will get the new cast member that goes that 110% - and trust me - when they come along - you have to treat them like gold and tell them (in front of the rest of the cast if possible) how much their extra effort was noticed and appreciated. I will usually give out an MVP (most valuable person) gift at the cast party. Sometimes two. Whoever qualifies. It can't hurt - my last MVP is now the producer for my upcoming show.


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Sue
*****
So many hats.....so few heads!


Posted By: B-M-D
Date Posted: 1/30/07 at 12:38pm
I'm fortunate to live in area where you can't swing a cat without hitting a ct.   From time to time we do run into situations that suzecue1 describes.
 
I do not agree however as eveharrington states, "if we put out crap that our community views and enjoys, then we were successful as a COMMUNITY theater."   I'm sorry but I don't view that as successfull just because the community is willing to settle for less.  It seems to play to the lowest common denominator.
 
I believe that if you require certain standards and committement from cast and crew that you will get that or come very close to it.  In any event your production will far better off than relying on those that are unable or unwilling to give you what you need.    I'd frankly rather not do a show if the alternative is to do stereotypical community theatre show.


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BD

"Dying is easy, comedy is hard."


Posted By: Wuo duh ma
Date Posted: 1/30/07 at 7:33pm
Originally posted by B-M-D

 
I do not agree however as eveharrington states, "if we put out crap that our community views and enjoys, then we were successful as a COMMUNITY theater."   I'm sorry but I don't view that as successfull just because the community is willing to settle for less.  It seems to play to the lowest common denominator.
 
 
 
I think I disagree with this because at the end of the day, our job is to make money to keep the theatre going.  If the audience loves your shows, they come and you get to stay open.  That makes you sucessful.  Is it less than you want, artistically?  Perhaps, but remember, for every Mamet play you do, you have to do a Simon.


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I am a leaf on the wind… watch how I soar.


Posted By: B-M-D
Date Posted: 1/30/07 at 10:52pm
Originally posted by Wuo duh ma

Originally posted by B-M-D

 
I do not agree however as eveharrington states, "if we put out crap that our community views and enjoys, then we were successful as a COMMUNITY theater."   I'm sorry but I don't view that as successfull just because the community is willing to settle for less.  It seems to play to the lowest common denominator.
 
 
 
I think I disagree with this because at the end of the day, our job is to make money to keep the theatre going.  If the audience loves your shows, they come and you get to stay open.  That makes you sucessful.  Is it less than you want, artistically?  Perhaps, but remember, for every Mamet play you do, you have to do a Simon.
 
I was speaking of the QUALITY of the show not necessarily the TYPE of show.   I have no issue doing Neil Simon or anything else that might be considered less than an "artistic" challenge.     I do have a problem doing Neil Simon crappily.  If you're going to to a show, any show, do it well or not at all.


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BD

"Dying is easy, comedy is hard."


Posted By: eveharrington
Date Posted: 2/01/07 at 3:27am
I understand that your speaking about the quality of the show, I guess whats frustrating me is the idea that if your actors have jobs they aren't properly committed and we must be producing crap. The show I'm doing now had just enough people show up to auditions to fill each part, and they all have jobs and other commitments causing us to rehearse only three days a week and only one day a week where I have everyone the whole time. I have no intention of putting out crap, I intend to work my butt off in the situation I am in and make it great. A real director doesn't blame the commitment level of others when things go wrong. Ultimately I don't think we disagree on this BMD, I just found Falstaffs comment very arrogant and condescending.

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"If nothing else, there's applause... like waves of love pouring over the footlights."


Posted By: GoldCanyonLady
Date Posted: 2/01/07 at 9:10am
I have been following this dialog for some time and this morning, if one particular actor is late again, he is through.

We live in a senior community where people don't generally work, but they manage to keep very busy. Auditions for this play were done in March of 2006 and the rehearsal schedule was given in April. They had to sign that they had no other committments (cruises etc), but from the very first day of rehearsal (blocking act 1 scene 1) he didn't make it. He had something else to do. In the three weeks since we started rehearsing, he has been up to 1 hour late or just doesn't come for at least one of the three rehearsals each week. He has other meetings (he is a Lion and just got elected as vice president of his church) which he feels are more important. Last night he told me he would be late this morning because he had to attend a breakfast meeting with the pastor and president, but I happen to know that he was told he didn't have to attend the meeting. The president knew of the rehearsal schedule and told him not to bother with the meeting. He likes to play Mr. Important so playing the role of Vice President in the church is better that playing a character with only 40 lines. He has the smallest part in the play and our sound effects guy who has filled in each time he was either late or not there, will get the part. I figure that if they have the schedule so far in advance, there is no excuse for making other appointments at rehearsal time.

We audition and give them books in the spring because many of our residents go north for the summer and don't return until after Christmas. I figure that when rehearsals start in January, I should have their undivided attention.



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Barb Hofmeister,
MountainBrook Village Players, Gold Canyon, Arizona.


Posted By: GoldCanyonLady
Date Posted: 2/01/07 at 3:29pm
I am replying to my own message. He is gone. He did arrive on time. At the first break, as I walked back to the bathroom, I thanked him for being on time. He responded with, "I am very angry." I suggested that we go outside and talk about it. When I told him that I knew that he was told he didn't have to be at the meeting, he said that wasn't true. Then he said he would be taking other time off. At that point, I asked for his book and told him that he would no longer be in the play.

When I announced to the cast that he was finished, one actress tried to defend all of his meetings, but I wouldn't accept that---not with a rehearsal schedule in everyone's hand 9 months before rehearsals start. Then the lead actress said she supported my decision and we all returned to rehearsing. It will be fine.  


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Barb Hofmeister,
MountainBrook Village Players, Gold Canyon, Arizona.


Posted By: POB14
Date Posted: 2/02/07 at 9:01am
Congratulations on sticking to your guns, and good luck with the production!

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POB
Old Bugger, Curmudgeon, and Antisocial B**tard


Posted By: falstaff29
Date Posted: 2/03/07 at 6:05pm
Originally posted by eveharrington

I guess whats frustrating me is the idea that if your actors have jobs they aren't properly committed and we must be producing crap.
 
I have a real job.  I work with lots of actors and directors who have real jobs.  You can be committed to both.  What I'm opposed to is actors or directors who aren't really interested in quality, the kind of director who won't drill a problem area, the kind of actor who schlumps through the scene, unaware that theater is a craft that only takes on meaning when it excels and can be appreciated by an audience for the work itself, and not simply for the patronizing fact that a friend has the courage to stand up on stage.  This is a problem that, although it occasionally strikes a random actor or director in a well-organized outfit, is usually more basic to the group itself.  A theater board chooses the image, the reputation, the work ethic, the tolerances of its group.  Consequently, there are some that tend to treat theater seriously and some that, sadly, don't.  I don't see theater as some casual recreational activity pursued for your own enjoyment and self-esteem; theater has audience who pays.  Theater is a service to them, and consequently, it must always strive towards excellence.


Posted By: eveharrington
Date Posted: 2/03/07 at 10:53pm
Ok, I've looked back over this post and I have come to the conclusion that I got randomly offended by an offhand comment and completely lost the focus of my argument. In other words I stopped making sense about three posts ago. Now that I've taken a more rational look at it, I'm not sure why I started arguing about it in the first place, since I'm in basic agreement that the audience deserves a certain level of commitment and it is irritating when someone doesn't recognize that. My only reasoning can be that I have been desperately trying to schedule the show I'm currently directing around the casts other commitments and it ain't going too well, so sorry everyone.

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"If nothing else, there's applause... like waves of love pouring over the footlights."


Posted By: Helena
Date Posted: 3/07/07 at 12:05pm
I work with a community theater in a relatively small town.  We utilize a mixture of high school age and adult performers.  All of us are volunteers.  Some of us have formal training in various areas of production.  Most of us are as professional in our approach to our productions as possible, and we try to teach our young actors to have the same attitude.
 
While as a director, I need to take into consideration (to a degree) some of the outside commitments people have when I schedule rehearsals, I also make it clear to the actors that at a certain point in production they need to make the show their priority.  
 
I make it clear to the cast from the beginning what my responsibilites are as director, and what their's are as actor.  I will warn people who miss too many rehearsals, and I have replaced people who have skipped too many rehearsals no matter what their excuses are.  I owe that much to the rest of the cast and to the quality of the production as a whole.
 
If people can't make the time commitment, then they shouldn't be there.  Period.  It may be volunteer, but it's not just a fun time.  It is an insult to the rest of the cast who make the time commitment to coddle along someone who doesn't.


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"..that's farce, that's theater, that's life"


Posted By: avcastner
Date Posted: 5/20/07 at 12:28pm
Originally posted by eveharrington

My only reasoning can be that I have been desperately trying to schedule the show I'm currently directing around the casts other commitments and it ain't going too well, so sorry everyone.
 
I gave up scheduling around other commitments.  Instead, I hand out the rehearsal schedule with the audition packet and contract.  If they can't make all the rehearsals (only 3 days a week, so plenty of other days a week to schedule their other activities), then don't audition.


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Posted By: B-M-D
Date Posted: 5/21/07 at 12:23pm
 [/QUOTE]  
I gave up scheduling around other commitments.  Instead, I hand out the rehearsal schedule with the audition packet and contract.  If they can't make all the rehearsals (only 3 days a week, so plenty of other days a week to schedule their other activities), then don't audition.
[/QUOTE]
 
Philosophically I agree with you but in the real world of community theatre with real jobs and life in general, I think I'd be limiting my talent pool and would have made choices not as desirable if I didn't take schedualing conflicts into consideration.    Should I not have cast an exceptionally talented and sought after actress simply because she happened to be a "soccer" mom and couldn't make rehearsals on certain evenings?   Or an actor who was made for the role who happened to have a night or two of Army National Guard committments?


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BD

"Dying is easy, comedy is hard."


Posted By: Shatcher
Date Posted: 5/22/07 at 1:50pm
We ask all actors who audition to put any and all conflicts of the audition form. then we make up the reh sec. if it was not on your form TDB you should have told us before... There are exceptions for unexpected things or illness. It has not been a problem for us... also after one show we can tell if an actor is a PIA to work with and not cast them again.


Posted By: whitebat
Date Posted: 8/11/07 at 8:52pm
In HS, double cast show of "The Outsiders" one of our Ponyboys was more interested in basketball.  He got cut, but came back to play Wimpy in "Popeye" (very appologetic, but I wouldn't've taken him back) because the other Wimpy was academically ineligible.  We had a problem with parents not liking the late timing and length of rehearsals, but they made most of them anyway (kids were in show).  One actor we had major problems with him missing rehearsals.  This was in "Something's Afoot".  Our next show was a melodrama with the Sweet Adelines.  Same actor, same problem.  I was playing a minor role, working as a dresser, running the curtain, trying to talk to the guys in the booth on a radio with dead batteries, and understudying the no-show's part.  He was there for the performances.  Fortunately he did not audition for our most recent show.  We have the small town/shallow talent pool problem.  I would really like to have everyone in our next "real" show (not the interactive one we're doing next) with a small role actually understudy a major role.  It's always easier to fill a small role than a big one at the last minute.



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