Double-casting kids. What's the real deal?

So My daughter is about to audition for a very large Annie-size role (but it's not Annie) at a local community theater. This theater made a point of asking her to audition, telling her about the show months ago, even before it was publicly announced. She's doing mostly professional theater these days but really loves this role and WANTS to do it.

In the beginning when they asked me to bring her they told me about how they were afraid they wouldn't get a talented girl to audition and they REALLY wish I'd bring her. But NOW I hear they're actually thinking of double-casting the role.

Hey, it's only 8 shows, one per day for two week run.

Here's my beef. some kids aren't reliable, but my daughter has been acting for about 5 years, has a great reputation for never missing a show. She's completed professional gigs with more than 30 shows without being double-cast. why does a COMMUNITY theater think they need to double cast her? Well, they admitted they feel like they may sell more tickets that way. But publicly they say it's because they worry that the kid could get sick.

She complains to me about how she's more professional that most of the adults she's worked with. She busts her tail whenever she's in a show. Directors in this city KNOW that about her... at least the ones with a brian.

You directors need to realize that if you want talented kids,... with a LOT of esperience to show up for your audition and get cast in your show and in some cases, literally help get  you on the map, you need to show (some of) the kids a little respect. And to sell more tickets? So double-cast some of the adults, you'll sell more tickets that way too. Get two sound guys, and two set designers, and two choreographers, and two lighting experts, you'll sell more tickets that way too.

This theater, who practically begged me to promise I'd have her there, is very close to losing out because of this. I'm not a whacko stage mom. I have no stomach for it. It's my daughter who's upset. She's tired of being disrespected when she works so hard.

I'd love to hear your comments.

If you want professional-level kids to show up for a community theater show, treat them like professionals. I'm fine with double-casting when the schedule is very rigorous. Like once when there was 3 shows in one day (SOund of Music), and she was just 7. But don't lie and say it's becuase you think a kid might not handle it well, when there's just 8 shows and she's got more experience than most of the adults and all you really want is to sell more tickets. Then cast the fat little blobs with no talent. Their grandmas will still gladly buy tickets and you can still pretend to do real theater.

P.S. recently she want TRIPLE cast in a show that had 12 shows. the director, at a fringe theater (NOT community) actually told me she thought the role was SO DEMANDING it could "take its toll" on the kids. Then she had the balls to be miffed when we pulled out. Give me a break.

First, before I answer your question, I have to say that your attitude shocked me. I am assuming that you have never directed anything before and that your sole responsibility has been to get your daughter to rehearsals and shows on time. Given the tone of your post, I personally would be scared to death to cast your kid in anything I directed. I completely understand a mother being upset because someone has hurt her child's feelings, but REALLY you need to keep your attitude in check. There are lots of talented kids out there, and if you aren't careful, your attitude could eventually keep her out of being cast at all.

That being said - here is my answer to your question.

I have been directing children's theatre and community theatre shows for 10 years. I will cast understudies for the leads whenever I can. It isn't anything personal. It also isn't to sell more tickets, or because I have doubts about the lead being able to handle it. Even the most talented and professional kid in the world can still get sick. Am I correct in understanding that your daughter will only get to be in half of the shows, or is it double cast only to have a replacement if she gets sick?  It is still your choice to accept the role or not. So, if you aren't comfortable, say no and let another child have the chance to shine.

Thank you all for your thoughtful replies. I didn't expect so many in such a short time!

To falstaff: I believe this to be a fairly highly regarded community theater. Because we have some inside connection to this production is how i know they want to double-cast to increase ticket sales. THey SAID so at their production meeting. My point is why not do it with all the leads then, why just the kid role? I feel like they do it with kids because they CAN. Because the kids will put up with it. But the thing is, my daughter is saying to me that she's thinking of telling the Director that while she'd really like the part, she'd rather not be cast if is shares the role. I'm not sure I shouldn't discourage her from doing that.

To Suzecue: My attitude IS in check. Why do you think I choose to post on this forum? I only joined yesterday just so that I could because I'm not stupid enough to talk to ANYBODY in person about this. Unlike too many other stage moms out there, I am actually LIKED by directors. That's part of the reason why people involved in this production are being so candid with me. I post here because I'm hoping it is a safe place to do so and that I will get honest answers, and so far I have!

And yes, it is my understanding the each child will do half the shows. And because it's such a big role, it's a tremendous amount of work for just four shows. That's the part that really bothers both her and me. Is it fair for a director to expect top notch kids to show up to audition, expect them to give the role what it requires, and then only allow them half the performances in a teeny theater?

To eveharrington: No, no auditions yet. I'd tell you the name of the play but I don't know who reads these forums. Community theaters where I live are very competetive. Many are small-timey, but most strive to do as professional a show as they're able. But I will say this double-cast thing doesn't come up all that often at the professional theaters. And again, if they want to enrich the community, why not double-cast OTHER ROLES?

To Gaafa: Thanks, I enjoyed your post. At just 11 years old, the kid's got chops and the maturity to deal with all this and more. But that doesn't mean it doesn't grate on her. All she wants to know, (and what she constantly asks me) is why she can't be treated with the same respect as the grown-ups when she works just as hard?

So my question to each of you is: If she writes on an audition form (in a very polite tone) to the director that she prefers not to be double-cast, and you were the director, what would your reaction be? I fear that could hurt her chances more than it would help. But I really don't think she'll do the show if double-cast. And if the director doesn't find that out until AFTER he's offered the role to two kids, might he wish he knew sooner?

Thanks again for your feedback. It helps more than you know. 

Normally I wouldn't advise this but given the sincere tone of your post and that they asked your daughter to audition so earnestly, I'd dig in my heels and say only she plays the role if cast or nothin'.    As I said I wouldn't normally advise this tactic but I'd say you have a pretty good exception here.   It's rare that you have a child that has a good work ethic.    Most cts that double cast kids are because they need the dough from more ticket sales, membership fees or just don't think that most of the kids have the stamina to hold up for the given number of performances.    Go with your heart and what you know is right.

Good luck and break a leg!

If that's the reason, that's fine, but make sure she knows that many college theatres only give three to five performances of each show.  I did a show in college that ran two performances and had audiences averaging eight people, and believe me, it was plenty of work.  When I did Shakespeare, it ran three performances, and I had 400 lines and we rehearsed for three months.

If you don't think it's worth it, let the director know and let the chips fall where they may.  Of course it might hurt her chances.  It would probably remove her chances, if I were the director.  But if it's not worth it, then it's not worth it.

I have been in productions where we put in full hours of rehearsal and time, only to do TWO performances...  I agree with some of our friends here.. If she wants to do the show, she should do it. If half the nights are not enough, note it on the form or discuss it with the director.

Since you brought the subject up and on a side line, I HATE double casting.  So much so, I have made it a rule not to direct shows, or if possible, be in shows that the theater has requested be double cast.. IE, where in Wizard of Oz, they want to double cast Dorothy, the lion, the scarecrow and the tinman.  Great for the runners up, but plays heck with  the rest of the cast and chorus  who are trying to learn the timing and interplay with one set of actors one night, only to have another show up the following night.. the whole concept just isnt worth it to me..

The only time I double-cast was in a high school production of "Arsenic".......NEVER again!  I had two girls who auditioned for Elaine and were equally good.  Since it was a production in a rural high school that didn't have a theatre program, I really wanted to involve as many kids as I possibly could (both on stage and back stage) and give them a chance to learn something about theatre, possibly whetting their appetites for the future.

Well, maybe it was just the work ethic (or lack of it) of one of the girls I cast, but she thought that since she was doing only half of the performances, she only had to put in half of the effort.  Or maybe she was just pi--ed off that I didn't cast only her even though when I was doing the casting I asked both of them if they would be willing to play the role if it was double cast.  They both said that they would; in fact the "lady in question" was very enthusiastic about the prospect, while the other lady (who did a marvelous job in the performances) was somewhat hesitant but agreed to do it anyway.  Well, the performance of the "lady in question" was so far inferior to the other girl's that people in the audiences questioned why she was cast instead of just letting the other girl play Elaine.  The only things that I took away from the experience were the hope that the "lady in question" learned a lesson (which I sincerely doubt...she - and her parents - thought she was marvelous) and the firm conviction that I would never double cast again.

Wow...all these years later and I still haven't let it go!  I guess I'll have something to discuss with my analyst during my next session!

It is really interesting reading other people's takes on double casting.  I haven't ever double cast, but as I stated in an earlier I've cast understudies for leads when I direct kid's shows.  That way someone is available to stand in for an "emergency".  And trust me - with directing kids - there are emergencies. It has also come in handy when a lead character is absent from a rehearsal.  Understudies came in handy as one lead came down with strep that last weekend of a performance, and another got laryngitis (had no singing voice at all).  It served my purpose, and I have had ZERO bad experiences with casting understudies.

Along the same topic, I have been involved with many shows who only have 2 shows (one weekend). I have been involved in just as many that only had 4 shows (two weekends).  In fact, our CT never does more than 2 weekends. I played Olive in female version of the Odd Couple and had 475 lines to learn, 2 months of rehearsals for 4 performances.

THanks all... this has been tremendously helpful.

I have to say having had no experience on this forum - or any other for that matter - before this, I expected to maybe get one or two replies over the next couple weeks. This is actually been fun getting such a great response.

This is a wonderful resource... I'm hooked. There are soooo many other things I'm wondering about. I'll get around to asking your opinions, hopefully soon.

You know what Suzecue? you raise a good point in your recent post. If this show had just 4 performances, I don't think she'd have a problem doing just 4. It's about respect. She feels slighted. To her it's all about the adults not being double-cast. That's it in a nutshell.

We'll see how it works out. I asked her again this a.m. whether she wanted to tell the director she didn't want to be double-cast. Without hesitating, she said "yes". We shall see. I like to let her make her own decisions.

You guys rock.... this has been awesome.

If your child chooses not to take part in a production because she'd be double cast, then so be it.  I'm sorry if she feels that she's too good (take that to mean professional, mature, etc.) to be double cast, and if she elects to tell those casting the show where to get off after she was asked to audition, then that's her choice.  I invite children to audition all the time, but don't cast each and every one who shows up.

I agree with some of the others here in the forum in the point that shows don't last forever ... they end, we move on ... it's all about the experience while it's present! 

As a director, I've worked with children such as your own ... very talented, very dedicated, very mature for their age ... and they've chosen to find an agent and move on.  Good for them!  But, it's more often than not that those same professionals come back "home" when they find they're not the big fish in the pond once they move on to bigger and better things.  I have a former actor in Hollywood right now .... doing nothing "professional"!  I have another one who found an agent and disappeared for a while only to come back "home" after she was told by the big guys that she wasn't ready for Broadway ... yet!  Yet another one has been asked to leave company after company because she was getting a little too big for her britches. 

Let your daughter make her own decisions and see where it lands her.  Support her efforts, but be certain you're not influencing her with your own thoughts ... and be there to pick her up if she falls.  I wish her all the best, however, and hope to hear of her successes and failures here in the forum.

Hi Ozrks.

   I wish your daughter the best of luck. And keep us posted. You asked a question about how we would react to her politely saying that she wouldn't  accept the role if it were 'double-cast'.  I'm going to be the devil's advocate here and say if I were directing and I want to be honest, I would hesitate a bit in casting her.  I know her reasons and they are very valid and totally understandable.  I know that as a director if an actor is uncomfortable with playing a role for what ever reason, then I won't cast them.  I want my actors to be happy and I don't want the added worry of an actor's discomfort.  And by casting them in a role they are uncomfortable with I'm not being fair to them, myself and the rest of the cast.  Now having said that- I fear her actions may paint her as a 'prima dona' or 'difficult'.   I'm not saying she is. Not at all.  But you know how quickly people judge others based on a first impression and will the director reading her note know her reasons.  And a worry I would have would be 'how connected is this CT or others?'  Is it likely that if your daughter writes on the form not wanting to take the part if it's double cast could that word spread to the other theatre companies in your area. 

"Then cast the fat little blobs with no talent. Their grandmas will still gladly buy tickets and you can still pretend to do real theater."

I wish your daughter well in her career...apparently she never had to be in her first show and she will never get fat.

First, let me say that I have never double cast a show in 30 years and have no intentions of doing so in the future. I have a hard enough time getting one cast together for a performance. I can't even imagine two. Anyway, I have read and reread the posts on this subject. The director and/or producers have the right to cast the show the way want: double cast / triple cast / quadruple cast if the feel like it. It's their choice. They have their reasons whether you agree with them or not.  I wouldn't expect the director to change his mind. I wouldn't even ask. If I changed my vision for casting, directing, or designing everytime someone thought I should do something differently, I'ld never get a show off the ground. I am sure that Ozark's daughter is very talented, and so may be the other child that they cast. There is lots of theater out there. Have fun with it.

Linda

How did I miss that comment in the OP?

As the board's resident fat little talentless blob, I should have made some amusing remark about it the first time I posted.  But I didn't, and now it's too late.   

Eveharrington - i didn't think you were snippy.

the only snippy one here has been moi!

after all, i'm the one who wrote "fat blobs with no talent", hey, I was in a mood o.k?

O.K.  I get in those moods too....I almost smacked some doddering old fool in the grocery store parking lot yesterday ( do they always back up without looking?) and yelled at him.  Some days we are all a little cranky. 

before he became a doddering old fool he was probably a fat blob with no talent.

sorry....

there is no GREAT DEAL of anger. I  merely wanted your comments.

BTW, the last post I made? I thought I was being funny. UPon rereading, it may not have come across that way... but that's how it was meant.

Ozarks, I understand how you feel; and ultimately directors have got to learn not to ask people to audition.  Hold auditions.  If the person you want doesn't show up, call them for a private audition before you finish casting.

Above all, realize that everyone in community theatre is a lover of theatre, or they wouldn't be doing it for free.  It's great that your daughter has a wonderful work ethic and an obvious love for stage!  Those are two of my primary goals in my junior-high rehearsals:  teaching the work ethic and nurturing the love for the theatre.  If your daughter already has that and talent--she's definitely worlds ahead of the others.

If your experience with this CT has left a sour taste in your mouth, don't audition.  There are other shows.  Don't ruin a love for the theatre with a bitter experience.

It's the ultimate role for my kiddo... we both love this director and SM. The director has since told me he's "leaning towards" NOT double-casting.

She's going for it... way too psyched. I'll let you all know how it goes. There's no guarantee she'll get the part and she'll be o.k. with that too.

First off good luck ozarks!

Not ask people to audition???!!!   Why would one not want to ask people to audition that you have in mind for a role?   And why go through the exercise of a private audition afterwards if they didn't show up?  I would think that would raise more questions and eyebrows than asking folks to try out in the first place.

Asking peple lets them know that you're interested in them and, no NOT as guarantee of a role.    I just think it makes good sense to try and assure that you see people that you really want to see.    Auditioning and casting is by it's nature a subjective process.   Not all actors are created equal whether it be by talent, physical type or some other attribute that they have or lack.   

 As a director I wanted to add a few points...

First of all, I never double cast.  It's not that I can't, its just that it doesn't work.  Everyone picks a "winning" cast, and the whole "who gets closing" is something that has more problems than the audition itself. It's true that a lot of theatres and schools double because it makes money....everyone wants to see the "other" cast so they buy tickets to both.  Doubling adults doesn't do the same financially, becuse if you want to make real money, do a show with kids.....more people come see them than the adults.

I agree that some children act more adult that the grown ups do...so use that as a life lesson.  I treat all my cast and crew with complete fairness and respect....but I've known directors that don't.  The key is to look at the whole picture and see if it's worth the show to do it.

One thing I want to add is that you have to be really careful when you "ask" someone to audition.  If you get too heavy with it the actor feels as if you are "promising" them something....and you can't blame them.  If I were to be asked several times to audition, I would feel as if I had the inside track....it's ok to invite...just be real careful about it.

I have always felt honesty is best.  It shouldn't be about the number of performances or the work involved....do you want the part?  How bad?  If the theatre is doing it for the money it really is not up to you to make policy for them....they have bills to pay.  All you need ask yourself (and your daughter) is do I really want this part, and do I care if I share it?  That is the only thing to focus on.  If you feel that sharing a part is not what you want, then just say "thanks, but we are no longer interested"  and walk away.  Please do it before the cast list goes up though.....I hate it when I have to go to the 3rd or 4th person on the list becuse the first one turned me down.  It sets that child up knowing I really wanted someone else first. 

Just to clarify, I draw a line between handing someone a flier that announces auditions and calling them up or meeting them and having an indepth discussion about your views of the play and which part you think they would be best in.

As for the comment on a private audition after the rest, I only do that as last resort.  Usually I have more than enough qualified people audition for the leads and supporting roles, even if whoever I had in mind when I first read the play doesn't audition.  Every once in awhile though, we get a slew of inadequate performers trying out for a lead role.  At that point I start calling and holding a private audition.

I realize that every CT has different issues when it comes to casting.  I know some in my area have a problem getting anyone to audition, while others have only professionals (union members) auditioning who are very good but don't qualify for Equity-waiver status.

I hope my explanation has clarified my position on the issue.

I know i'ts a couple of years too late , but I have worked with several productions that have been double cast, I am in fact in the middle of one right now. The reason that we have to double cast, and I mean have, is because we offer four days of school day productions with each show, and the local school board will only allow the students to miss two days of school. Therefore we have to double cast to be able to reach as many children with our shows as we can. And normally all of our school day performances are packed, so we couldn't cut the amount of shows down. It's not the best solution, but it works for us, and we havn't had any complaints.