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Underman

Printed From: Community Theater Green Room
Category: Producing Theater
Forum Name: Acting
Forum Discription: Q&A about auditions, character development and other aspects of the craft
URL: http://www.communitytheater.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2042
Printed Date: 5/18/24 at 10:02pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 8.05 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Underman
Posted By: Actore116
Subject: Underman
Date Posted: 9/25/06 at 6:55pm

Hi,

I have a bit of a problem. I'm in my first professinal play and it's getting a lot of publisity. I just am feeling bad because the lead role boy in the show is getting his name every where and I haven't been mentioned once. I know i'm being petty and I'm happy for him but this boy is the same age as me but he got the bigger part. I just want anyone to give me advise one how they deal on this.




Replies:
Posted By: Playwright
Date Posted: 9/25/06 at 9:23pm

Just keep in mind that the lead role boy probably didn't start out in lead roles.  He probably had smaller roles.  Just concentrate on doing the best you can with your role.  The playwright put it there for a reason.  As much as all that publicity is nice, it can be distracting.  Keep your eye on the end goal and have fun, be professional in your attitude and remember that everybody had to start somewhere.



Posted By: eveharrington
Date Posted: 9/25/06 at 9:27pm
Try and think how much better it will be to get publicity for giving a standout performance in a supporting role than it would be having to live up to a bunch of publicity for something you haven't done yet.

-------------
"If nothing else, there's applause... like waves of love pouring over the footlights."


Posted By: B-M-D
Date Posted: 9/25/06 at 9:37pm

You say it's professional theatre.   Then have a professional attitude.  You say he has the bigger part so does it not make sense that the publicity might revolve around him.

Yes, you are being petty.   You're getting paid for what some people only dream they could spend their life doing professionally. 

SUCK IT UP and act professionally!!     Do you really think that anyone that sees the show cares about the publicity this or that actor got.   Perform well and don't have an attitude and your work will be recognized by the right people who will be able to do more for you than the publicity of a single show.

I challenge you to bring your "problem" to the producers of the show.  You and I both know that they'll tell you to pound sand.

Sorry if you didn't get much sympathy here.  Break a leg!

 



-------------
BD

"Dying is easy, comedy is hard."


Posted By: Actore116
Date Posted: 9/25/06 at 10:11pm

Wow B-M-D That was harsh!

I don't think I have an attitude about it, and yes he DOES deserve all the publisity but I have hadmultipule people at school say to me "why weren't you in the paper?" so I was just feeling "down"   and I defenitly WON'T say anything to anyone in the cast or production team. It's just hard for me. I never ment this topic to be a place where people tell me I shouldn't complain, I just wanted to hear what other people would "think" in my situation. 

So I'm sorry if I'm being petty!!!

EVE and PLaywright-- Thanks for the great advise! I'm already feeling better



Posted By: B-M-D
Date Posted: 9/26/06 at 12:19am

Yup it was harsh and that was the intent.   And you should be sorry for being petty. 

Waah, waah....your feelings were hurt because your name didn't appear in the paper.   Would you be feeling this way if you were getting the publicity and the other guy wasn't?  

Why not try some shameless self promotion and email, IM, text message, phone or send smoke signals to all of your friends, relatives, aquaintances....agents even...and say hey come see me in this fabulous show.

You may not understand yet that life isn't fair, the theatre certainly isn't, and never will be.  Get used to it.   (and if you're thinking that it should be that's an entirely different discussion /argument having nothing to do with reality).

Now learn your lines, be on time and don't bump into the furniture!!



-------------
BD

"Dying is easy, comedy is hard."


Posted By: Gaafa
Date Posted: 9/26/06 at 5:49am
Great advise that has even started to work already & it?s all for free ?n for gratis!
An old adage given to me by a one legged stage manager back in the 50?s. While I have not achieved any fame or fortune from it, I believe I?m richer & it has served me very well ever since!
"If you want to succeed in this business, it take 80% attitude, with the balance made up by aptitude & a wee bit of empirical knowledge!"
Bewdy Blue g?donya cobber. for not spitting the  dummy!
You have taken the first step by sharing & hopefully going a long way toward understanding ?what it is all about?!



-------------
      Joe
Western Gondawandaland
turn right @ Perth.
Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}



Posted By: Sueshoo
Date Posted: 9/26/06 at 9:05am

Have you the heard the one about Oprah Winfrey?  

When she was cast in the movie "Color Purple", she was not big enough  to have her name on the movie poster.  Poor thing just had that little talk show in Chicago.

All good things in time.



-------------
Susan
Life is not a Dress Rehearsal


Posted By: suzecue1
Date Posted: 9/26/06 at 9:06am

I think we have all experienced what you are feeling - in one way or another - and you have already been given some great advise.  I applaude B-M-D for being so honest! I really don't have much new to offer. I might just say, that being a male actor with any talent at all, you will have a much easier job of getting that lead part someday, and the publicity that goes with it.  It is not as easy for female actors, for there always seems to be about a 4 to 1 (women to men) ratio at auditions. Many times I have seen a "so-so" male actor get the lead, and have 3 to 4 excellent women to choose from for the female lead. Good luck and hard work will get you there.

 



-------------
Sue
*****
So many hats.....so few heads!


Posted By: POB14
Date Posted: 9/26/06 at 9:14am

We've all carried spears.  Try to remember that the publicity (which is the issue for the producers) has nothing to do with the artistic values of the play (which is your issue).

Did you ever see Shakespeare in Love?  If not, go rent it right now.  I'll wait.

Hm, hm, la la la la . . .

Oh, you're back?  Good. 

Anyway, remember the bit at the party after Romeo and Juliet opens?  Some people who haven't seen it are asking the guy who plays the nurse what it's about, and he answers, "It's about this nurse . . . "

That's what your attitude should be, not for publicity purposes (after all, did any of the reviews of The Godfather mention Third Mobster From the Left?), and definitely not for display in front of your fellow actors, but for your preparation of the role.  TO YOU, your role is the most important. 

Playwright, who posted above, is a, well, playwright, so she knows whereof she speaks.  It is absolutely true that every role is in the play for a reason.  Find that reason, and play the hell out of it.  And next time, or the time after, you'll be Lead Role Boy  and somebody will be complaining about all the publicity you're getting!

PS to Gaafa:  Oh, how I wish you had said "a stage manager with one leg named Ralph" so I could ask "what was the name of his other leg."  But you didn't. 



-------------
POB
Old Bugger, Curmudgeon, and Antisocial B**tard


Posted By: POB14
Date Posted: 9/26/06 at 9:16am

Originally posted by suzecue1

Many times I have seen a "so-so" male actor get the lead

So what, exactly, have you seen me in? 



-------------
POB
Old Bugger, Curmudgeon, and Antisocial B**tard


Posted By: eveharrington
Date Posted: 9/26/06 at 1:50pm
The thing is Actore, you have to decide if you want to be an actor or a celebrity. There are quite a few highly talented, working actors in the theatre and movie world that almost never get a lead part, but they are doing excellent work and are respected in their field by people with an educated and credible opinion. Celebrity is just being well known, it has nothing to do with talent (Fabio anyone?). The paths to acheiving these two things do NOT converge. I'm sure if you love acting enough to be on this board that you'd prefer the first one. Do some research on the number of actors versus the number of paid acting jobs, take a few minutes to review YOUR goals in life and I guarantee you'll feel much better.

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"If nothing else, there's applause... like waves of love pouring over the footlights."


Posted By: MartyW
Date Posted: 9/26/06 at 2:25pm
All sage advise.... But as you have told us in a previous post what part you got, let me share something else with you... And by no means is to detract from all this wonderful advice... I just closed in that show, as I mentioned to you earlier, and though the lead boy got the last bow, it was always, and I mean always, Georgie that got the most laughs and applause...  It's not the role, its the actor...

-------------
Marty W

"Till next we trod the boards.."


Posted By: red diva
Date Posted: 9/26/06 at 4:38pm

It's great that some of the people on this board have the courage to speak honestly and say things that need to be said. It would also be great if they had the courage to say those honest things in a softer and constructive manner so that the recipient doesn't go away feeling awful about him/herself.  I think we're all on this board to give advice when asked and to learn when we need to.  There are ways of giving advice that let the recipient go away feeling good about themselves while still having learned a lesson.



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"I've worked long and hard to earn the right to be called Diva!"


Posted By: B-M-D
Date Posted: 9/26/06 at 5:50pm

Originally posted by red diva

It's great that some of the people on this board have the courage to speak honestly and say things that need to be said. It would also be great if they had the courage to say those honest things in a softer and constructive manner so that the recipient doesn't go away feeling awful about him/herself.  I think we're all on this board to give advice when asked and to learn when we need to.  There are ways of giving advice that let the recipient go away feeling good about themselves while still having learned a lesson.

Yes, yes at times I say the things that need to be said in unvarnished tones that make it crystal clear as to what I mean.   I am direct, frank and to the point.  Not unlike how I am in real life.   And believe it or not I still have friends.....who are actors.....and who want to work with me time and again.

A straight talking, no non-sense guy that has friends in theatre.....go figure!!



-------------
BD

"Dying is easy, comedy is hard."


Posted By: castMe
Date Posted: 9/26/06 at 9:03pm
I love you guys.  How I wish i could spend all my theater time with Gaafa, B-M-D, POB...............and someone to translate for Gaafa.

Suck it up actore.  It's a play about a nurse.  If you approach it correctly, the play will alway be about you.  But life isn't.

Sorry kid, but that's the way of the world and actors need tougher skin than most.  Why else would we regularly subject ourselves to that most painful of activities......Auditions.


-------------
Investigate. Imagine. Choose.


Posted By: Gaafa
Date Posted: 9/27/06 at 2:23am
Originally posted by castMe

I love you guys.  How I wish i could spend all my theater time with Gaafa, B-M-D, POB...............and someone to translate for Gaafa.

Cor blimey Cast me - I?m totally gob smacked!
Crikey what a menagerie especially with this old Galah!
I assure you, as I don?t have the slightest accent or dialect other than a neutral English one, I?d probably need a translator so I could under stand some of  the American dialects.
When I went home for a trip back to England a few years ago. My wife did a lot of the translating for me in Geordieland & she is a dinkidie Aussie.
Last year I rang up a few members of the Amdram.co.uk forum website, who were holding a Moot at a centrally located pub in Norwich & spoke to them for the first time. It rather caught them by surprise because they expected me to speak in a strine accent, which was a cross between Rolf Harris & Steve Irwin [RIP]. But they got just plain old me instead!
I should refrain from bunging the strine ockerisms on when posting - but my right hand index finger, which has a mind of it?s own, just taps it out on the keyboard regardless!
Thank you again Cast Me you have well & truly made my day, week & indeed year!



-------------
      Joe
Western Gondawandaland
turn right @ Perth.
Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}



Posted By: POB14
Date Posted: 9/27/06 at 9:07am

Originally posted by castMe

I love you guys.  How I wish i could spend all my theater time with Gaafa, B-M-D, POB...............and someone to translate for Gaafa.

I think I found our translator:



-------------
POB
Old Bugger, Curmudgeon, and Antisocial B**tard


Posted By: red diva
Date Posted: 9/27/06 at 9:36am

I knew I was taking a chance when I expressed my opinion about ways to offer constructive criticism, but I felt it had to be said.

I have adjudicated/responded in community theatre festivals for nigh on to 30 years, and I have had quite a bit of training in the same.  One thing that is always emphasized is:  yes, honesty, but expressed in a way that allows the participating groups/individuals to go away with some sense of dignity and self-worth.  Making criticisms in this way does nothing to diminish the honesty of the critiques, it just allows them to learn in a constructive, not destructive, way.  Expressing raw, unkind criticism (though honest and perhaps deserved) serves only to put individuals/presenting groups on the defensive which in turn shuts down their ability/willingness to listen and learn.  They are quite likely to dismiss the criticism as mere rantings (I know this is the case from experiences that presenting groups have shared with me).  There are ways to be crystal clear, frank, direct, and to the point in a constructive way and still make your point understood. And to help the recipients of the criticism learn the lessons that they need to.

It's not about how far you can go and still remain friends with the recipients of the criticisms;  it's about the dignity and self-esteem of those on the receiving end.  Yes, some people are thicker skinned than others, but you also need to take into consideration those that are thinner skinned.  There is a big difference between saying "Waah, waah, waah....don't be a baby" and something like "After you achieve more maturity in yourself and your craft you will come to realize that ...." etc.

I realize that we aren't ever going to agree on this.  Just wanted to express my opinion and let you know that there are people out there that don't or can't accept or respond well to that type of criticism.

I'm done venting now!



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"I've worked long and hard to earn the right to be called Diva!"


Posted By: B-M-D
Date Posted: 9/27/06 at 12:46pm

Unfortunately I lack the skill (or patience) to walk that fine line.   I appreciate that some people do.  

I love that good theatre adjudicators are able to parse critisism, suggestion and learning.   Having participated in a few drama festivals here I was recently witness this past June to the best and worst of both worlds.   In this particular festival we import "professionals" as opposed to the folks that do our regular production consultations and awards. One (a well known soap actor) was the worst offender, offering only critisism and not much else.  Though spot on with his observations (validating most of my thoughts) they were not couched in a manner that suited the forum.  Another (a director and playwright) was useless in that he went out of his way so as not to offend anyone that we gleaned very little from his feedback.   The third and best was a woman who was a professional director and educator (perhaps there in lies the difference) asked probing questions and let us know where we made good choices and other choices that may have been better and why. If a production stunk you stlill understood that it stunk but you knew why and how to improve it.   Fortunately for the show I directed all three liked it and we were nominated in several categories including best ensemble and my SM won for best Stage Manger (the nominees and winner for SM are determined by the stage managers of the festival itself and not the adjudicators).

Hope you stick with this disscussion board red diva.  Although I'm not in total agreement with you on everything I appreciate the intelligent insight that you bring to it.



-------------
BD

"Dying is easy, comedy is hard."


Posted By: B-M-D
Date Posted: 9/27/06 at 1:08pm

Originally posted by castMe

I love you guys.  How I wish i could spend all my theater time with Gaafa, B-M-D, POB...............and someone to translate for Gaafa.

I'm honored to be included in such good company!   .....and trying to translate Gaafa is almost half the fun of this forum. 



-------------
BD

"Dying is easy, comedy is hard."


Posted By: red diva
Date Posted: 9/27/06 at 2:37pm

Thanks for the kind words, BMD.  I appreciate them!

It's great to have this venue to compare, vent, offer, suggest, share, criticize, and learn.  I certainly will stay with it, and I look forward to more honest and informative discussions! (My skin has thickened over the years....I really am a tough old broad.)



-------------
"I've worked long and hard to earn the right to be called Diva!"


Posted By: GoldCanyonLady
Date Posted: 9/28/06 at 11:18am
Originally posted by Actore116

Hi,

I have a bit of a problem. I'm in my first professinal play and it's getting a lot of publisity. I just am feeling bad because the lead role boy in the show is getting his name every where and I haven't been mentioned once. I know i'm being petty and I'm happy for him but this boy is the same age as me but he got the bigger part. I just want anyone to give me advise one how they deal on this.



I just read this and it sure sounds like high school to me. I think Actore needs to grow up. Maybe Actore thinks it is a "professinal" [sic] play because it is an organized play. So tell us Actore, are you actually getting paid or is this, high school or community theatre?




-------------
Barb Hofmeister,
MountainBrook Village Players, Gold Canyon, Arizona.


Posted By: onesongglory
Date Posted: 9/28/06 at 3:30pm
I was in Over the Tavern with Marty.... I played Eddie. It was my first main role also... Just know that its not that big of a deal. Georgie gets many many laughs in the show..... read the script his main line is s***. lol Also at curtain call he always got the loudest roar. If you pull the part off well you will steal the show and the publicity will come later. Just let things play out. You'll be fine....

Break a leg!


-------------
~Matt~


Posted By: Actore116
Date Posted: 10/01/06 at 8:44pm

For Goldcanyonlady, yes this is a professional play. I am getting paid and pay taxes for it. ( i hate taxes)..

    Thanks Everyone, I appreciate everyones advise. Alltho I would appreciated a LITTLE sypmithy. For example "grow up" I'm sorry  I didn't mean to be so childish. But understand what everyone is saying and I feel much better.  

 



Posted By: Gaafa
Date Posted: 10/01/06 at 10:59pm
I sympathise with you paying taxes?
G?donya for being able to get payed in theatre & doing so at a young age!
I can just remember when I got first got paid, actual money, besides 2 bottles of pop & a packet of crisps per performance.
I was king o? the wazza! Wiv?alf a crown in the ol? sky rocket! But that was back in the dark ages of the last centaury.
I can?t actually remember paying the tax bloke at the time. Only the ?alf a tanner {Thrupenny piece or Tra bit] it cost to gain a performance licence.

There is an old theatre adage, which may stand you in good stead, that I never heeded when I was paid, until it was too late;-
"If you want to succeed in this game. Get yourself a Manager & stop handling yourself!".
Forget the jibes from your mates, because that?s all they are & they will get over it!
But never ever forget the most important people, the BOS?s [punters].
Please keep us updated with your venture & of course if you ever need any more unbiased advice -  click on here!
Chookas Actore!



-------------
      Joe
Western Gondawandaland
turn right @ Perth.
Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}



Posted By: Actore116
Date Posted: 10/01/06 at 11:58pm
I do want to get a amnager or an agent. I'm just waiting because I know that agents often come to the shows and I'm hopeing that will happen


Posted By: Gaafa
Date Posted: 10/02/06 at 1:58am
Not sure how it works over there mate?
But in most cases here the Theatre Company pay & get you an initial Equity (Union) card as part of the jobs base package. Which can be worth it?s weight in gold bricks, when getting an agent & other things. As you will always have someone in your court, looking after your interest, before you sign up with a Manager/Agent or trod the boards.
There are a lot of ratbags out there, who will you tie up & you receive Nowt - only pay out!
Your the product & not just the free nosh!
What is the production you are in, you never know, we might see your name in lights one day!
I get mine up in lights all the time.'

'EXIT'


-------------
      Joe
Western Gondawandaland
turn right @ Perth.
Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}



Posted By: castMe
Date Posted: 10/02/06 at 5:53pm
I am restraining myself from telling you, Actore, where in the dictionary, one may find sympathy (I had to look up the spelling).  Maybe the lack of sympathy stems from the fact many of us would love to have the problem of getting paid to perform. 

by the way    where and what is the show?

That would be some free publicity for you.  Have you seen how many members The Greenroom has?


-------------
Investigate. Imagine. Choose.



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