It is a policy of the theatre I work with for the director to call each auditioner personally and let them know whether or not they will be considered for a part in a show.

I've just finished that task for a play I'm directing.  Having selected and gotten positive responses from those I wanted, I've spent two days calling those who did not get parts.  Several of those are wonderful human beings and good actors who I've worked with before.  I am very confident in the choices I've made and feel I have assembled the strongest cast possible.

However, the notification process always pains me because I can and do commiserate with those who are not cast and being the bearer of bad tidings takes a toll on my psyche.  As we all know, choices are more often than not up to the whims and opinions of the director, and other directors could and probably would cast the same show a different way.

There were no bad situations, no tantrums or recriminations, all I contacted took the news like a trouper and I cannot express how grateful I am for that. 

Thanks for your time and consideration, just letting the pressure ease so I can go forward.

Would love to hear your thoughts and input on the process.

Hi,

   When I direct I have always made it my policy to call everybody who auditions.  I always call who I want to cast first to make sure they want to accept the part.  When I call my no's I always say something positive about their audition.  If they ask why I didn't cast them, I try to be tactlfully honest and say I was going for a certain look with my characters (ie: family resemblence).  I encourage them to keep on auditioning and if I'm aware of any other auditions happening, I tell them.

     You sounded like you did an awesome job with your calls.

I think it is a painful task to call someone and tell them that they did not get a role.   It's painful and awkward for both sides of the equation and as a director I will not do it as a normal practice for the majority of actors that audition for me and as an actor I don't want to get that call.     If an auditioner asks me why they didn't get the role I assume they want me to honest with them and I will tell them. 

I'm sorry but I do not understand nor do I agree with policies that insist on contacting the people that did not make it.  I frankly have bigger fish to fry with getting a show off the ground than concerning myself with the hurt feelings of actors who really should expect the "agony of defeat" and the "thrill of victory" to be part of the territory of auditioning.

BMD -

I'm sorry you feel that dealing with the hurt feelings of actors is not important. Yes, it is a painful task, one that I do not enjoy at all, but it comes with the territory in our theater. Frankly, I've had actors that I'm turning down try to console me because they know it's a tough job. Our directors call everyone so that there are no misunderstandings. We also try to encourage people to come back and try again, to work crew and to get involved.

As an actor, I always want to know why I didn't get cast - heck, it might make me do a better job next audition.

I think that part of the "community" of community theater is that phone call, one way or the other, that says that your feelings are important to us. After all, the actor I'm turning down this month might be the director I'm auditioning for next month...

I disagree with the policy of calling EVERY actor and telling them why they were not cast.  This goes back to the old adage of "Don't call us, we'll call you."  

Consoling the runner-ups is hurtful and humiliating for all parties involved.  As a director, I always say at callbacks "You'll hear from me [within a week/next Thursday/by the end of the month] if you've been cast.  If you don't hear from me by the end of that time, then I just want to thank you for auditioning, it's been a pleasure seeing all of you."

As an actor, I find it is NEVER helpful to find out why I wasn't cast.  I must realize it is up to the whim of the director, the writer, and sometimes the producer.

TOP TEN REASONS WHY YOU DIDN'T GET THE PART

10)  You're too old.

9)   You're too young.

8)  You're too tall.

7)  You're too short.

6)  You're too ethnic.

5)  You're not ethnic enough.

4)  You're too fat.

3)  You're not fat enough.

2)  You remind the director of:  a) the kid who beat him up on the playground in third grade, b) the girl that broke his heart in junior high  or c) the guy at work who drives him nuts in the next cubicle.

1)  You were by the far the best actor to audition for the role, but we gave the part to an old friend from college.

Of course, there's another possibility why you didn't get cast and that simply could be "You suck!" 

Would you REALLY like to hear that from a director?  Would that inspire you to take lessons and improve yourself, or would it inspire you to slash his tires?

Sounds as if there are two schools of thought here... and I guess I'm in the other one.

I have received some very good and helpful advice from directors who did not cast me. I have also been invited to work on the show in a non-acting role which has also helped me.

When I first tried out for a show, the director turned me down - over the phone. However, he was very kind in pointing out what I could do to improve. This in turn made me want to go back to this group... a group I've been with for more than 20 years now. All because a director thought I was important enough to call and reject me in person.

Now, I understand that not all groups work the same and each group has its own strengths and culture, but most of us are dealing with adults. I'd like to think that I'm strong enough to handle rejection and I certainly prefer to be treated as such.

Topper, your list is exactly the reason I prefer to call everyone... I want them to understand that those AREN'T the reasons I turned them down (even though they probably will). At least I made the effort. And who knows, maybe I'll get through to one or two of them and they'll stick around and get cast in the next show. Our talent pool isn't big enough that we can afford to have people walking away mad, though some of them inevitably will.

...by the way; I did hear the "you sucked" line from a director once... she was right, I went in with the wrong attitude. Sure, it stung, but I didn't cut my wrists. After all, nobody died.

I had an experience, though, that would support the idea of contacting everyone. Three years ago I auditioned for a show that only contacts those who are cast. After the allotted time I hadn't been contacted, so I assumed I wasn't cast. Two days later I was asked to assistant direct a show somewhere else, and I accepted. Two days after that, I got a phone call from the first theater, wondering why I hadn't been at the first rehearsal. Apparently they'd left a message at a wrong number, or something.

It turned out for the best for me, because I turned down the role in the first show to stick with the other, and I'm now directing there, which is what I'd rather do. At the time, though, it was awkward. If I'd known to expect a phone call either way, I'd have called and asked when I didn't hear.

Melissa

I have wrestled with this for years. Those "no" phone calls are the hardest ones in the world to make. They are especially hard when you know that someone really wants a role, or is child. I do make the phone calls though. I sometimes split the duty with my producer and / or stage manager depending on how many calls we have to make. I usually call the people I know or have worked with before, and the producer calls those people who are especially difficult. I have someone who keeps showing up for my auditions who scares the socks off me, but that is another story.

Next auditons I was thinking about trying something different. I am going to be casting a small cast musical in a couple of months and I have a feeling that we are going to have large turn out. The last time I had auditions for a small cast musical and we had a large turn out, and we were on the phone for hours. It was just dreadful, and we were pretty worn out by the end of it. If this happens again, I was thinking about telling everyone at auditions that if they haven't received a phone call for callbacks within 48 hours, that I appreciate them auditioning, and I hope they will audition for me again. But that unfortunately I can't cast everyone. Then, after I have had callbacks I will make phone calls. I may change my mind though. I struggle with this every show, but I agree it comes with the territory.

Linda

I agree with many of the things already said on this topic, but wanted to mention how we handle auditions here.

At the auditions/callback the first and last thing said to everyone is "thank you for auditioning".  We then tell them that we'll be calling those who we are offering roles to by "end of the week" or whatever the time frame is.  I always over estimate that deadline to give time to deal with unforeseen casting concerns (or lack of male turnout, hehe).

I call everyone being offered a role.  But send a letter to those who aren't cast.  I always try to customize the letter to each person, and encourage them to audition for future shows and if appropriate point out specific upcoming audition or volunteer opportunities.

We've developed this method because we feel it is important to once again thank those who auditioned and not "leave them hanging" waiting for the phone to ring if they are not being cast.  It also eliminates that awkwardness of being the barer of bad news especially if there are kids involved.  I don't send the letters until I've spoken to all the actors who are being offered roles and they have accepted.  The letter also states "we don't have a role for you in the cast at this time."  Because I have had to go back to the audition pool to replace actors who had to drop out shortly after rehearsals began.

For me anyway, this method works most effectively.  It lets everyone know one way or the other, lets you give feedback to those not cast and avoids weepy or hostile phone conversations.

    I,too, live in an area that is saturated with CT's. There are three major cities and three smaller towns all next to one another.  

I feel it's just common courtesy to call people who audition back.  Splititing up calling duties to other production people is an good idea especially if the director is busy or is uncomfortable with calling.  But the calls should be made.  I like to know that when I spend sometimes a whole evening at an audition that my interest in the play and the CT matters enough to be called- even to get a no.  And I have found that sometimes the 'no' is interested enough that they offer to work on the show in another capacity.  I have gotten several new crew members this way.

AHHH!

Okay, one last point then I'm done... I can't count the number of auditioners I've called (many to turn down) who've been through the experience of auditioning for a theater that uses the "don't call us, we'll call you" method... they are always extremely grateful for the call and much more inclined to return (or work production).

BMD,

If the woods are dense with actors, they can't all suck, can they?

That's it, I'm done...  BEER!

Mike I'll take a Guiness or Sam Adams!   Next round is on me.

Nah, they don't all suck.  They're actually pretty good around here for the most part.    We certainly thank people for their time and we always post the cast list to a "hot line" once everyone has accepted and sometimes post it to our web site.   No one is ever left in the dark as to who did get cast.

The letter idea by 75director isn't a bad one, eliminates that awkward conversation.   I personally, however, don't have the discipline to take that kind of time for it.

Okay, I'm not done...

I have a question; how many of you directors who don't call (I don't want to use the word "rejects" here, it sounds so un-PC) those actors who were "not up to this challenge" have professional or semi-pro experience?

Ok Mike I think I see where you're goin' with this one.     

While the ct experience isn't a professional environement I think most good or better ct's attempt to produce as professional a show as possible.  If your argument is that it's the "pros" that take the less than humane practice I'd beg to differ.   At least in my experience even the pure "amatuers" around these parts don't make the calls and most actors don't expect it.  

And CastMe I agree with you 110% and thanks for the Guiness!  I've got next round after you.   Someone take my car keys, please!

Mike, I never did answer your question directly.  I'll leave that a....mystery.

BD,

I wasn't actually going anywhere with the question, I was satisfying my curiosity. I have no professional experience in theater. Mine is all amateur and I only know what I was taught. I was curious about where everyone learned their methods.

Now, if the children have all gone to bed, I'll have some of that nice scotch sitting on the rail... in fact, barkeep! A round for the house... and whoever finds my keys, hang on to 'em, will ya? I'll need 'em at some point - tomorrow.

Hey,

I like Vodka Coolers or Mikes Hard Lemonade.  My leading man is the one who likes Corona.  BTW, myself and the three leads (two guys and a gal) from my play back in July are having a get-together in a couple of weeks.  Just to catch up on each other and to keep our friendship going.  I know they will want to tortue me to tell them what I have planned for them in play number 3 (I have over 90 pages written & printed out so I will stop re-writing over and over-  One scene to go).  All three of them plan to reprise their roles as play number three takes place about eights months afer the play we just did.

    I'm dropping very mysterious hints to them about what's going to happen- yes, I know it's mean- but I love to tease them.  

   I'll raise a glass to you all when I'm having my one and only drink.  I have to drive home so I only have one.

FOOTNOTE- We did the play as a fund raiser for charity.

I ended up making $5,000. Way above my hoped- for goal.

 After reading Barb's post: I fell out of my chair laughing! All  these folks who cannot cope with anything less than adulation! Do they have a clue what it is like in the professional world of theater?

 I just directed one amateur actor who was insulted when I gave her notes and expressed her grievances to those in power ( she was also the board chairman) behind my back. Apparently she wasn't used to actually being directed - just praised.

The show went on to win an award but the experience was unpleasant and I won't work at that theater anymore.

As a stage manager I have worked with directors who make me make the "no" calls. I would rather not have to make those calls but you do what you have to. It is a little easier for me to make those calls because I can just say I don't know why the director made his/her choices ( I try to stay out of casting) I have been yelled at by an actor who wasn't cast for making the call and others say they are glad I called. You can't win.

byw, I would not recommend asking your SM to make these calls. They have enough to do already.

Now where is my beer?

That's the greatest idea I've ever heard!

Until I moved here, it never occured to me that any community theatre director would NOT call the people who weren't cast.  They only call the "yesses" here, and it drives me nuts, particularly since casts aren't posted for weeks (not the greatest webmasters in the world, I imagine).

I don't really have a lot to add beyond MY experiences in the last 20 years - but I DO have to agree on one hand with TristenRobin that in professional theater - you don't get called if you don't make the cut.  Simply put, if you WANT to try to run your theater as professionally as that, there is NO need to call everyone who auditioned.  If you're trying to give the impression, even in community theater, that you're a professional organization, then as many others have said, it goes with the territory.  You audition, you get called back or you don't, and you get CAST or you don't.  Simple as that.  I never needed to be called when I auditioned.  I simply was told at the outset that people would be contacted if they are cast. When the calls didn't come, I figured it out.  NO animosity, no regrets, nature of the beast.

ENTER THE INTERNET - thankfully that in many ways these days, takes care of a LOT of things.  A cast list gets posted on a website, actors check there for the list.  Those who MAKE IT ARE contacted personally to let them know details.  Those who don't read it and weep.  TOO traumatic to be the harbinger of bad news much less to recieve it by phone with whatever apologies are dished out in an attempt to make you feel better about losing out.  Sadly there are some who lose out who THINK they SHOULD HAVE gotten the role -whether they were good enough or not.  I make lists.  I've learned in my community who is who and what is what with most of the people I've worked with or directed or whatever.  I refer to the list often when directing/auditioning people.

There may have been mention - though I don't think I've seen it in most of the posts here - that if you set the parameters at the outset (auditions) then there is no question about how it is to be handled.  Doesn't mean you won't have people call you and ask you why they weren't cast after the fact but this helps preclude the problem.  My pat phrase to ALL auditioner AT AUDITIONS is this...."First of all thank you to all people who are auditioning.  However, there are only so many roles in this show.  Some will make it, some will not.  It is neither a reflection on your talent nor your willingness to be involved. It's simply my decision based upon MY needs and my concept for this particular production.  I encourage everyone to avail themselves of all the community productions going on and continue to audition for things you might want to be involved with."  END OF PHRASE.  It's NEVER failed me yet.  I never do call backs anymore either.  If after all these years I'm not good enough to figure out what I want when I see it- the first time around - then I need to quit doing it.  LUCKILY I've been blessed by whatever theater gods there are to usually always pick the right people and have enjoyed mostly successes with shows I've worked on.  NOT out of anything I do - save have the time and experience in at doing it - but to be smiled upon by someone watching over what I do in theater.  And THAT is my luck so far.

TonyDi

I was really on the fence on this whole issue until I read this.

I'm sure TonyDi didn't mean it this way, but this post (to me) gives off such an impression of arrogance and "I've done professional theatre and if you disagree with me you're unprofessional", that should I ever be lucky enough to direct again, I'm definitely calling everyone who auditions, just so that I don't come off that way.

Again, I'm sure it wasn't meant that way.  I'm just talking about the impression people get from phrases like "read it and weep" and "trying to give the impression that you're a professional organization."

The root meaning of "amateur" is "one who loves."

The root meaning of "professional" is "one who makes a public declaration."

I'm an amateur.

Well POB if I had NOT been on both sides of the fence - as director AND as one of those poor folks who was summarily REJECTED I could never speak to the issue.  But I am neither arrogant nor mean spirited.  It's simply a matter of what a community theater company wants to present themselves as.  Those who tout being run "professionally" - most of those I've ever come across don't require all actors who don't make the cut to be contacted.  It varies so widely from company to company I've worked for, that I have had to formulate my OWN personal opinions and devise my own processes for casting and/or contacting people who audition.  That's all.  I've been on both sides of this issue too, working FOR professional companies as well as (mostly) community theater organizations and EVERY ONE I've ever worked for did it differently and required different approaches.  I don't come on here to be called arrogant.  It's simply a matter of experience and if that's what makes me arrogant, professional or amateur - well I can't help that.  It is what it is.

I don't recall making any indication of the fact that ANYONE needs to agree with me at all.  I consider myself neither amateur nor professional.  Those to me are empty terms designed to exclude or include, by a lot of theater people I've run up against in my nearly 50 years of doing theater (there I guess I'm showing off now).  I was stating an opinion - not forcing anyone to accept it.  By the way the "read it and weep" phrase was not intended to be harsh - beyond it actually BEING the harsh reality of what it is in community theater and professinal theater alike...not to intimate that I'm that cold and heartless.  But as I said, being the harbinger of bad news to someone who really might have wanted to do a show and loses the role to someone else - is not what I really ever enjoy - and I've done it but didn't like it.  What else do you call it?  The auditioners don't want to hear bad news and I don't want to deliver it...so I don't.

You know I thought perhaps I could contribute on this forum but I didn't realize the expression of opinions based on experience was going to offend someone who thinks that just because someone MIGHT have more experience than them, that would qualify them automatically as arrogant.  I can leave as easily as I came, if you'd like and find someplace else to be.  Actually I have numerous other places where I certainly was made more welcome than this.  However I thought this was the best thing I could find like this.  Alas, another mistake perhaps?  We'll see.  Thanks for your kindness.

TonyDi

By the way, I certainly didn't come here to incite anyone's ire.  So perhaps it's best if you feel as you do that I just pack it up and leave.  Easy way out as it was an easy way in.

boy did I miss a post? Ididn't think things had gotten as bad as the last post. I think POB was just stating his opinion based on his experience. We don't always agree but thats what life is about. I for one love the forum and all of its charectars!

Tony baby lighten up!    Although I agree with just about everything you've stated on the topic there's an implicit arrogance and thin skin that seems to have been revealed in your last response to POB.   I don't see where anyone's made you feel un-welcome.   If I felt un-welcome any time someone took issue with my responses I'd have no fun with this forum at all.

Tony, did you read the part where I said this:

I'm sure TonyDi didn't mean it this way.

As I re-read my post, I see where it was somewhat harsh.  For that, I apologize.  I neither took nor intended offense.  I was just trying to suggest how not calling might engender worse feelings than calling would. 

POB,

Well thank you for your response and apology.  I too, must apologize for my rant.  Sorry about that.  Long winded too - part of who I am.  I understand that things I might have said may have appeared to be reactionary.  If you want, go read the other post on the ACTING link and you may understand a bit more who I was dealing with (a tempermental, arrogant actor who was a problem case from the outset albeit after auditions).  Who knew??  So let's just not get off on the wrong foot and I'll contain myself as much as possible.  I'm a hot-headed Italian and it's a fault being so outspoken, to the point, and abrupt.  But I am too old to waste too much time (don't have that much left  so I have no time for attitudes from actors who I work with or anyone else).  Believe me when I say, I DO NOT have attitude.  I have FOUGHT THAT TOOTH AND NAIL like a pitbull, for the last nearly 50 freaking years from those who exhibited that.  I may come off that way to some.  But I assure you I am not. 

Anyway, I will accept your apology and trust you will accept mine.  Now we can move ahead and I HOPE that I can contribute something to the group.  I AM NOT the last word believe me.  But as I said (no brag, just fact) I HAVE been doing this almost 50 years in one form or the other.  NOT that THAT counts for anything.  I am aware it does not.  But if I CAN be of assistance I trust people will accept it in the spirit of good will, good sense, relatively good experience, time and age/wisdom (if it's even really wise at all).

THANKS FOR YOUR REMARKS.

TonyDi

Apology accepted, although it certainly wasn't necessary.  (What happens to an apology that isn't accepted, anyway?  Does it go to a community college for a couple of years and try again? )  I did read the other post, and frankly, if I had been dealing with the actor you had,  I would have inserted a large garden gnome in him. 

Sorry we got off on the wrong foot, and I'm sure we can both contribute to many a lively discussion here in the future.

Y'all keep this and we'll have to extend Happy Hour... which, come to think of it, isn't a bad idea.

But I'll tell you guys one thing; I'm learning a heckuva a lot!

Wow.  Thanks for the visual. 

And thanks for an expression that I'm sure to steal and use often.

Be my guest.  I stole it from John Cleese in Fawlty Towers. 

Late to the party, but what's new... Put my vote down for the don't call side.... I have been on both sides of the fence, and don't know how on earth I would handle the rejection call, let alone coming up with the enrgy and stamina to handle calling a huge rejection list as director. It is hard enough when an actor wants to quible about the role they were offered or the one they thought they should get.  Multiply that by a large cast shows reject list, yikes...  As others have said, I respect those of you who will take this high road approach, but as for me, I have always gone with (and perfer to have those I try out for do the same) "We will call you by xxxx if cast. Otherwise, thanks for trying out" approach.  I personally, add a something that use to be standard in our theater, but has gone into disuse.  I like to send a little note card.  In it I thank them again for coming out and encourage them to try out again.

Not right, not wrong... Just one more opinion.....

Sorry if I'm repeating.  I didn't have enough time to read all of the replies.

I just finished casting a play, and I pretty much knew who I was going to use before all the actors left.  But after last year when I had to make some tough decisions that would cause both actresses to hate me either way, I do not verbally communicate a cast list.

I teach at a school, so I post the cast list.

At a CT, you could post it on your website or create an outgoing phone message on a voice mail or answering machine with the list.

This prevents the hard feelings and the actors who will try to get you to rethink your decisions.

What a great idea.....putting the cast list on your or the theatre's answering machine!  I blush that I had never thought of that.

Also great is putting it on your website, but a lot of our webmasters just aren't able to post it as promptly as would be desirable.

My pet peeve is posting the cast list on the theatre door (and, I hasten to point out, I do not include school, university, etc. theatres in this as their auditioners have easy access to the list).  In our area, many of us work at several theatres, and several drive great distances to get to them (I recently worked with a woman that drove 1 1/2 hours ONE WAY to get to rehearsals).  It is outrageous to expect someone to drive all that way just to see if they are cast when a short and simple phone call would be considerate and benefit the theatre's outreach and PR.  Another friend was just recently cast in a show 45 minutes from her house.  When she asked the director if he could possibly call her because of the distance involved, his response was "we don't do that here".

I am firmly in favor of the "we'll call you by 11:00 tonight if you are cast; if not, thank you for auditioning and please come back again" school of thought.  I also think it's imperative to write a little thank you note to those not cast thanking them for their time and interest, and inviting them to help out in a tech area and come back to audition for the next show.

As a director I do call everyone back who auditions. Personally, I don't like leaving people hanging. I call the leads first to make sure they say yes, and then continue down the rest of the list. I do like the idea of posting of the cast list on the internet, that is if you have a web master that is "johnny-on-the-spot".

I have a another question along the same lines. What do you do if you don't have enough people audition for the number of parts you need? I have found that we have quite a few members who won't show up to auditions, but they will drop me a line letting me know they are available if I need them. Which, puts me in a new predicament.  Do I cast the one that actually shows up to auditions (but doesn't fit the part) over the one who didn't come to auditions (but is better suited for the role).

Ah.....it never ends.....

Originally posted by castMe   Other times, its a matter of talent with the pool not being deep enough for me to feel safe casting someone with less experience or talent.  That's not to say I haven't cast what I think of as "projects" knowing I may need to spend more time with this person or that, but ultimately I feel I owe it to my actors, theater company and audience to put the best product possible on stage.  If that means I don't cast someone others might feel is "just right" for the role, so be it.  It has never (up to now) become an issue. Has anyone had problems with this?   (Boy, there's a stupid question)

I was on the casting committee for a production of City of Angels and the director and I agreed that we didn't have an Alura that was quite right but insisted on casting from those that had auditioned.   My suggestion was to either have another casting call for Alura or call someone that was appropriate for the role.   The woman that was cast was talented but I felt didn't have the stage presence and sensuality that the role needs to convey.  As a matter of fact I had directed her in another production the previous season and was wonderful in that show.   The woman was cast and as I had predicted she made a valiant effort but fell far short of what the role required.

For me if I don't get what I want at auditions I have no problem going out and seeking who I need.   Unlike the director of City I do not believe that it's affront to the people who auditioned.   My first obligation is to give an audience the show they paid to see with talented performers that fit the requirements of their roles.