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Ending a dramatic moment

Printed From: Community Theater Green Room
Category: Producing Theater
Forum Name: Acting
Forum Discription: Q&A about auditions, character development and other aspects of the craft
URL: http://www.communitytheater.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1949
Printed Date: 6/19/24 at 1:37pm
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Topic: Ending a dramatic moment
Posted By: Broceli
Subject: Ending a dramatic moment
Date Posted: 7/31/06 at 9:06am

i'm in a play, in which I play a father trying to cope with his sons death. His daughter constantly fights with him, and in one scene i raise my arm to slap her, but catch myself. She runs off and i'm left standing there,i'm not sure what to do, i watched a video of it and it's looks silly and awkward....Any advice?

 

(im supossed to be upset with myself for even thinking of hitting her, my next line is: "i've never hit anyone")

im new at this forum, so sorry if this is not the sort of thing discussed.



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ok, now try it again, but this time...don't suck



Replies:
Posted By: Mike Polo
Date Posted: 7/31/06 at 9:36am

This is exactly the kind of thing we discuss here, welcome.

Have you discussed the problem with the director? Video doesn't always capture the way the scene looks from the house.

I don't know the play or the scene, but I would think it should look awkward... after all, this isn't something your character would do. Truth be told, I'm hesitant to offer anything more than that without knowing what your director says and without knowing the show.



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Mike Polo
Community Theater Green Room
http://www.communitytheater.org
http://www.twitter.com/CTGreenRoom">


Posted By: B-M-D
Date Posted: 7/31/06 at 10:35am
Have to agree with Mike on this one.   Ask your director, that's their job. 

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BD

"Dying is easy, comedy is hard."


Posted By: castMe
Date Posted: 7/31/06 at 5:27pm
Agreeing with Mike and BMD here, but I will tell you what I tell my actors when they are unsure what to do.  Do nothing.  The audience will imagine what you are thinking without you having to do, say, or think a thing.  That's what an audience is for.  To make all the value judgements that the actor should stay away from while crafting their role.  We're actors, not feelers.  Feeling is the viewer's job.


Let us know what your director has to say, OK?


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Investigate. Imagine. Choose.


Posted By: tristanrobin
Date Posted: 7/31/06 at 6:29pm
castme, LOL LOL LOL, I totally disagree with everything you wrote LOL LOL
LOL

different strokes       


Posted By: B-M-D
Date Posted: 7/31/06 at 6:58pm

So CastMe, you agree with Mike and I and then go on to give advice, the very thing that we advised against.  (Falling on floor LOL)

An actor dosen't make a value judgement?!  A playwright doesn't make a value judgement?!  A director doesn't make a value judgement?!  The playwright always has a point of view or a value judgement even when they seem not to or the intent is to be ambiguious.   Theatre has been manipulating audiences feelings and points of view for centuries.    Where's the risk or challenge to remaining neutral?

But this is getting off Broceli's original point of disscussion.   Bottom line - work it out with your director.



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BD

"Dying is easy, comedy is hard."


Posted By: castMe
Date Posted: 7/31/06 at 7:15pm
An actor's job (as I see it) is not to pass judgement on his character.  (also widely afield of the topic)  It's not the actor's job.  The playwrite may (it's his baby) The audience may (it's their dough that bought the ticket) .  This is the same side of the coin as "the actor must find something about his character he likes.  If all actors made value judgements of their characters, noone would have ever played Don Corleone, Hannibal Lector, or any of the thousands and thousands of reprehensible, amoral, immoral, hateful roles written.  That was my point re judging. 

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Investigate. Imagine. Choose.


Posted By: tristanrobin
Date Posted: 7/31/06 at 8:07pm
Now I agree with castme, LOL, actors should NEVER pass judgement on their
character. Very very few people do things that are not nice because they
WANT to be not nice. Most people are quite sure of their 'rightness.'

However, I whole-heartedly disagree that an actor should ever "do nothing."
Any actor that "does nothing" on stage is going to bore the socks of an
audience. This doesn't necessarily mean they have to move. But acting is
doing something. If the actor has stopped acting in order to "do nothing,"
they've stopped acting. IMO, a very big no-no.   


Posted By: castMe
Date Posted: 7/31/06 at 8:24pm
I guess what I meant by "do nothing" is....Sometimes you don't have to actually do anything to have the audience react to the mood. If the script is there, and your character is there and your fellow actors are there, and the moment is there....when it comes time to "react" to a dramatic moment, just your being there is sometimes enough for the audience to imprint their feelings on your face.  I didn't mean to imply you could float thru a performance and give nothing. I have witnessed scenes that have reduced me to a sobbing idiot by merely watching actor A watch the actor B exit.  He needn't cry nor wail, nor wring his hands, nor curse the gods. I was moved because I KNEW how the actor felt, and yet I have no idea whether he was as moved as I or was pondering what to eat after the show.  And therein lies the beauty of acting.....you get to play dress-up and pretend for 3 hours that what you're doing is happening right now for the very first time.

(please note how I qualify the hell out of everything..."sometimes this and sometimes that")    

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Investigate. Imagine. Choose.


Posted By: B-M-D
Date Posted: 7/31/06 at 8:48pm

CastMe I'm thinking that you agree with me more than not.   I see having a point of view or making a value judgment as making a choice to either do or not do something that will advance the point of view or value judgment of the play or playwright or to simply move the plot along.



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BD

"Dying is easy, comedy is hard."


Posted By: Broceli
Date Posted: 8/01/06 at 3:32am
Thanks for the feedback,

The play/musical is footloose by the way

the director suggested I hold my position (arm raised) till she runs off, as she is running of i rub my forehead with the hand i was going to hit her with, then lean on a table (nearby), head down.

Opinions?

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ok, now try it again, but this time...don't suck


Posted By: JoeMc
Date Posted: 8/01/06 at 6:03am
 Sound all right - except I would hold the hand raised, while  she runs off. Turning my gaze from her exit to fix on the offending raised hand towards the audience. Then lower it slowly with the use of the other hand clutching it, following it with your head & gaze on to your chest. Then lifting your head slowly to deliver the line to the punters. All the time using the length of the pause to reflect your action & allow the situation to dictate the time you take.
Rehearse in front of a mirror at home, when your believe it is taking too long, you will find it won?t be long enough. Therefore hold the study of the offending hand for more heart beats, until you feel it in side!
From the initial hold of the hands action, be subtle & do as little movement as possible, in order to pull in the punters focus.
Well that?s how I would play it, for what it is worth?



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[western] Gondawandaland
"Hear the light & see the sound!
TOI TOI CHOOKAS
{may you always play to a full house!}


Posted By: tristanrobin
Date Posted: 8/01/06 at 8:53am
Originally posted by castMe

I have witnessed scenes that have
reduced me to a sobbing idiot by merely watching actor A watch
the actor B exit.? He needn't cry nor wail, nor wring his hands,
nor curse the gods. I was moved because I KNEW how the actor felt, and
yet I have no idea whether he was as moved as I or was pondering what
to eat after the show.?? ?


ah - gotcha. I think we agree. LOL Just a difference in phraseology.
Though, I might add, if the actor was TRULY pondering what to eat after the
show, I bet you wouldn't have been so moved! LOL


Posted By: B-M-D
Date Posted: 8/01/06 at 9:58am

Originally posted by Broceli

...the director suggested I hold my position (arm raised) till she runs off, as she is running of i rub my forehead with the hand i was going to hit her with, then lean on a table (nearby), head down.

Opinions?

Why are you asking our opinion of this?  None of us are in a position to second guess your director.   If you have a real concern about what the director has asked you to do or if you have another idea I'd strongly suggest going to the source about it.

As a director it would upset me if I had actors that wouldn't come to me if they had an issue with what I've asked them to do or if they discussed it only with other actors who are also not in a position to give that kind of advice.   By discussing it with your director maybe the two of you will come up with something even better.



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BD

"Dying is easy, comedy is hard."


Posted By: Mike Polo
Date Posted: 8/01/06 at 10:17am

B-M-D

I think James is feeling a little insecure in what he's been asked to do. However, I agree he really needs to talk with his director and explain that he's still uncomfortable. Of course, what he's feeling on stage may not be what it looks like out in the house. I've never been a proponent of using videotape during the rehearsal or performance period as a tool to develop character or movement. That's what the director is for. When I direct, I forbid any use of video.

James,

If what you are feeling is based on what you are seeing on the tape (I'm going back to your first post), perhaps it's time to put the tape away and trust your director... after all, that's why we have directors. After all the discussions we've had on this board about "backseat directors", we tend to defer to the director in this type of instance.

Everyone -

Videotape as a rehearsal tool - discuss.



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Mike Polo
Community Theater Green Room
http://www.communitytheater.org
http://www.twitter.com/CTGreenRoom">


Posted By: B-M-D
Date Posted: 8/01/06 at 12:58pm

I've never used video as a rehearsal tool or had a director that used it for that.   When watching performances that I've directed or performed in on video they don't look or sound the same as when I've witnessed them live. 

Maybe it's the quality of the video itself, I've never seen a ct performance that's the same quality of a professional video of a B'way show that you'll sometimes see on PBS. 

Bottom line is that I would never use video as a rehearsal tool and would only use it for archival purposes (personal or otherwise) of performances. 



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BD

"Dying is easy, comedy is hard."


Posted By: jayzehr
Date Posted: 8/01/06 at 1:13pm
Originally posted by Mike Polo

I think James is feeling a little insecure in what he's been asked to do. However, I agree he really needs to talk with his director and explain that he's still uncomfortable. Of course, what he's feeling on stage may not be what it looks like out in the house.

Just what I was going to say. This relates to the other discussion about "doing nothing."  How you feel as an actor does not neccesarily have anything to do with what the audience perceives.  What you think you are seeing on a videotape does not neccesarily represent what an audience is going to perceive.  That's why you need a director.


Videotape as a rehearsal tool - discuss.


It seems like a terrible idea, though I've never seen it used so I guess I should reserve judgement. A videotape of a theatrical performance does not represent the reality of the performance. Also, the mind tends to judge it according the aesthetics of film and television productions that were designed for the screen, where a play is not. In other words, it's going to look "bad" and even worse during rehearsal. You would run the risk of destroying your actors' confidence in themselves and you (especially young actors.) At the very least, if you start showing actors videotapes of themselves rehearsing it seems to me it's going to radically interfere with the process. They would start judging themselves, second guessing the director and making subjective decisions based on what is at best a distorted view. On the other hand, maybe it would be of some use in a musical to check choreography.




Posted By: jayzehr
Date Posted: 8/01/06 at 1:20pm
By the way, relating to the discussion about deleting profanity, isn't videotaping a performance usually also strictly prohibited for any purpose? I don't know if that applies to rehearsals.


Posted By: slicksister
Date Posted: 8/01/06 at 1:46pm
Oh man.  This is such and interesting thread!  Love it!  as far as using video for rehearsals I've never done it except in one show we videod the choreography - the choreographer doing it - so people could practice and memorize it at home.  Worked ok. 

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The Main Thing is to Keep the Main Thing the Main Thing


Posted By: castMe
Date Posted: 8/01/06 at 8:16pm
Originally posted by tristanrobin

.
Though, I might add, if the actor was TRULY pondering what to eat after the
show, I bet you wouldn't have been so moved! LOL


But, Tristan, that's my point. It really, ultimately doesn't matter what the actor is thinking or feeling.....All that matters is what he's doing and how we respond to what he's doing.

Ever come off stage thinking "Boy, was I ever on tonight.  I sure nailed that scene tonight."  Only to have your director say, "Gee, castMe, you seemed a little flat tonight." ??

How about the performance you think stank up the place and again you're surprised when Mr. Director exclaims, "CastMe, you were outstanding tonight.  So much better than last night." ??

It doesn't matter how you feel....it doesn't matter what you're thinking or whether you're in a good mood or hungry or horny or if your feet smell. All the audience every knows is what you do. 


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Investigate. Imagine. Choose.


Posted By: castMe
Date Posted: 8/01/06 at 10:25pm
Originally posted by B-M-D

When watching performances that I've directed or performed in on video they don't look or sound the same as when I've witnessed them live. 



I think it could be because we've not directed it for the single eye of the camera, but for the eyes of a live audience. Were we to have directed it for the camera, we could have zoomed in or panned or cut in a reaction shot or whatever.  When watching live, our eyes pan and scan on their own to see what we want to see or what is most important (or what isn't quite right).  I've never used video as a directing tool and don't see myself doing it in the future.


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Investigate. Imagine. Choose.


Posted By: POB14
Date Posted: 8/02/06 at 9:13am

Originally posted by castMe

Originally posted by tristanrobin

.
Though, I might add, if the actor was TRULY pondering what to eat after the
show, I bet you wouldn't have been so moved! LOL


But, Tristan, that's my point. It really, ultimately doesn't matter what the actor is thinking or feeling.....All that matters is what he's doing and how we respond to what he's doing.

[snip]

It doesn't matter how you feel....it doesn't matter what you're thinking or whether you're in a good mood or hungry or horny or if your feet smell. All the audience every knows is what you do. 

Yes, but.  What you do, and how you do it, is colored by how you feel.  Ever ask your SO "What's wrong?" only to hear "Nothing" ?  Now, do you know whether it's really nothing, or whether you'd better start making up the couch to sleep on?  Sure you do.  Because what we think and feel reads in what we do.  Now, if you're a good enough actor to stand over Hamlet's dead body and make me feel "oh, crap, my best friend's dead and Denmark's screwed now" while you're actually thinking "man, I'm hungry and horny and my feet smell," great.  You're a rare exception, but great.  I'm not.

Originally posted by Mike Polo

Videotape as a rehearsal tool - discuss.

Yug.  I can barely stand to listen to myself; if I ever had to watch myself, I'd crawl in a hole and never come out.   I have two videos of performances I've given -- and I have it on reliable authority that they were pretty decent performances -- and I've never watched either of them.  Gave copies to my mom, though.



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POB
Old Bugger, Curmudgeon, and Antisocial B**tard


Posted By: Mike Polo
Date Posted: 8/02/06 at 10:23am

Years ago, I saw a performance by a young lady whose abilities had previously impressed me. In this show, however, she was awful. I was appalled and spoke to the director afterward, diplomatically asking the question, "What did you do to that woman?" The director explained to me that she had gotten ahold of a videotape of her performance from the previous weekend, watched it, and changed everything she didn't like about her performance. The director was tearing his hair out.

Since then, video is a bad word around my productions... I don't even want my actors looking at a movie or stage producition video of a show I'm directing (should there be one). I don't want them doing their impression of the actor that had the role previously, I want them using their own brain and working with my interpretation of the show.



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Mike Polo
Community Theater Green Room
http://www.communitytheater.org
http://www.twitter.com/CTGreenRoom">


Posted By: jayzehr
Date Posted: 8/02/06 at 10:40am

You?ve heard of the film editing experiment by Kuleshov where the exact same clip of an actor was used in different montages of various images? The audience read different emotions from the exact same expression depending on the combination of images. I think it can be the same in theater.  Now, note the following is from a community theater hack so take it for what it?s worth but: I?ve come to the conclusion that there is a lot of nonsense associated with method acting or at least what people think method acting is. Starting out as an actor, when I was trying to use this approach there were many times where I was ?feeling? something appropriate only to be told by the director that it wasn?t working. Often, I would ?feel? uncomfortable with what would work.  I came to the conclusion that it doesn?t always necessarily matter what you are feeling. I eventually did a number of plays with a director who used (approximately) the Meisner approach and that crystallized my opinion on this.  I think actors can frequently get into trouble trying to ?do? too much, not just with actions but with thoughts and emotion. I think the most important thing is to imagine yourself in the situation and to then pay attention to the other actors and to what is actually going on in the moment.  Sometimes trying to conjure up emotions or memories takes you out of the moment and gets in the way of that. Possibly related to this: recently, I?ve been reading some about Eugenio Barba and the ?pre-expressive? which, if I?m understanding it correctly (and I very well might not be) refers to a starting physical and energetic state (or stage presence) that communicates to the audience without the addition of any intellectual meaning.  Can anyone enlighten me on this?:)


Jay


Posted By: tristanrobin
Date Posted: 8/02/06 at 4:57pm
MIke, I've had exactly your experience - and I wholeheartedly agree that cast
members watching films, filmed performances, etc. of a play are verboten!


Posted By: castMe
Date Posted: 8/02/06 at 5:23pm
The best book on acting I've ever read is "Directing Actors..creating memorable performances for film and television" by Judith Weston.

Don't be put off by the title...either by thinking it's exclusively for directors or only for film or TV.   Ms. Weston teaches directors how to think like actors and in the process, can help you to become a better actor.  The book is published by Michael Wiese Productions.  I read this book and had a feeling similar to that I imagine religious zealots feel when they feel "god".

If you have tried the method or any of its homely sisters and were left feeling "Nothing", I heartily encourage you to find this book.  I am on my second copy as the first fell apart from overuse in my hands.


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Investigate. Imagine. Choose.


Posted By: POB14
Date Posted: 8/03/06 at 9:43am

Originally posted by castMe

The best book on acting I've ever read is "Directing Actors..creating memorable performances for film and television" by Judith Weston.

Never read either of her books . . . I just may have to track this one down.

<checks local library . . . checks university library . . . nope . . .>

Okay, I just ordered the damn thing from B&N.  CastMe, I'm sending you the bill if it's no good

I will say this: she's got a great reading list on http://www.judithweston.com/book.shtml - her website .  I also love the concept of an "Acting For Directors" class.  I think we need some more of that kind of thing:

  • Lighting Design For Actors (or how not to stand on the one dark spot on a brilliantly lit stage)
  • Directing for Set Designers (or why the door an actor needs to enter through must, in fact, open)
  • Choreography for Singers (or Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us)
  • Acting for Audience Members (or why it's a bad idea to answer your cell phone while that guy in black is going on about slings and arrows).


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POB
Old Bugger, Curmudgeon, and Antisocial B**tard


Posted By: castMe
Date Posted: 8/03/06 at 5:42pm
POB...if you don't find this book to your liking, I will gladly take it off your hands.  No kidding.  Let me know what you think.  One thing that really piques my interest about Ms. Weston is that she offers individual one-on-one consults.  Very reasonable, too, according to her web site.  After I hit the Megabucks, I'm all over that.

Please let me know what you think of the book, Patrick.  If you want, I will forward my e-mail address.

By the way, I've always wanted to teach an acting class to show actors how to open doors, sit in a chair or sofa, put on shoes, etc, on stage.  Do any of you notice how people seem to deal with doors and sitting on stage like they've never done it before?  While I'm ranting, why do so many actors find it so hard to carry on a conversation with an actor upstage of them without turning around (and upstaging themselves in the process) just so they can see the other actor?  


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Investigate. Imagine. Choose.


Posted By: Aimee
Date Posted: 8/03/06 at 8:37pm

Originally posted by castMe

  While I'm ranting, why do so many actors find it so hard to carry on a conversation with an actor upstage of them without turning around (and upstaging themselves in the process) just so they can see the other actor?  

Same reason they stand in the ONLY dark spot on the stage.  Manage to be in the ONE spot the mic doesn't work, and do the ONE thing  that will break the props as the curtain is going up.

 

 



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Aimee


Posted By: POB14
Date Posted: 8/04/06 at 3:22pm
Originally posted by Aimee

Originally posted by castMe

  While I'm ranting, why do so many actors find it so hard to carry on a conversation with an actor upstage of them without turning around (and upstaging themselves in the process) just so they can see the other actor?  

Same reason they stand in the ONLY dark spot on the stage.  Manage to be in the ONE spot the mic doesn't work, and do the ONE thing  that will break the props as the curtain is going up.

And the same reason why, when they (we) drop something, they get an "Oh S$#%!  I dropped something"!" look on their faces and stare at each other like idiots instead of JUST PICKING THE DOGGONE THING UP!

CastMe, I'll start a new thread here with my thoughts once I get the book.  It is supposed to ship today. And I promise I won't make you pay for it -- I've yet to read a book on acting/directing that I didn't get something out of!



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POB
Old Bugger, Curmudgeon, and Antisocial B**tard


Posted By: castMe
Date Posted: 8/04/06 at 5:16pm
Originally posted by POB14

CastMe, I'll start a new thread here with my thoughts once I get the book.  It is supposed to ship today. And I promise I won't make you pay for it -- I've yet to read a book on acting/directing that I didn't get something out of!



I won't hold you to your promise and was serious about buying the book if you don't love it.  I am, however, pretty confident you will get more then something out of this particular book.


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Investigate. Imagine. Choose.


Posted By: Shatcher
Date Posted: 8/04/06 at 5:18pm

video for rehersal: Well when I do lights I like to shot viedo of a run through and use it to ruff in my cues. I always tweek live on stage and make changes but the video gives me a great head start and less fixing whem the actors are there. This is for techies only I don't like the idea for actors. I use it to remind me of where folks are on stage ect.

 



Posted By: Mike Polo
Date Posted: 8/04/06 at 6:46pm
Originally posted by Shatcher

video for rehersal: Well when I do lights I like to shot viedo of a run through and use it to ruff in my cues.

...as long as you ain't using it to set gels!



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Mike Polo
Community Theater Green Room
http://www.communitytheater.org
http://www.twitter.com/CTGreenRoom">


Posted By: POB14
Date Posted: 8/17/06 at 9:28am
Originally posted by castMe

Originally posted by POB14

CastMe, I'll start a new thread here with my thoughts once I get the book.  It is supposed to ship today. And I promise I won't make you pay for it -- I've yet to read a book on acting/directing that I didn't get something out of!



I won't hold you to your promise and was serious about buying the book if you don't love it.  I am, however, pretty confident you will get more then something out of this particular book.

I haven't forgotten about this -- I want to finish the book and give it the review it deserves.  Just been busy lately.  But, as a first impression, I don't think I'll be asking CastMe to reimburse me . . . .



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POB
Old Bugger, Curmudgeon, and Antisocial B**tard


Posted By: Shatcher
Date Posted: 8/17/06 at 12:48pm
No I don't use the video to set color. I focus the lights then shot a run through as late in the reshersals as I can. It is a great time saver at wet tech(first tech w/actors) the cue is already written I just have to play with the brightness ect.


Posted By: Tom_Rylex
Date Posted: 8/17/06 at 12:54pm
Originally posted by Mike Polo

Videotape as a rehearsal tool - discuss.

I'm a bit late on this, but thought I'd put in my 2?. I think videotape is a tool like any other, and can be used for good or evil. As an actor, I use it for two primary reasons: 1) To record choreography, and 2) to evaluate my own performance.

I can be off book in about a week, but I have mental blocks when it comes to remembering choreography. Being able to have a review on dance that I can practice at home helps everyone.

The self-evaluation is not my preferred method, but it is necessary if the director is unable to provide feedback, or is too meek to criticize. After I have developed my character, I know what I want the audience to see. I need a third-person perspective to let me know if my actions are speaking that character.

Video is helpful for visualizing gross body movement, not subtle detail and inflection. I'll use it to check for some comedic timing, to fix stage balance, etc. Often, I catch myself hunching, which I do unconciously when I'm paired up with shorter actors (I'm 6'0").

I've had occasion where I didn't get out my video camera but the director did. She used it to fill in her notes, not to show to the cast. At one point however, she took me aside and showed me some video of myself. "It looks ok, but there's something missing that I can't pin down. It needs something more. Look at it, then fix it." The next time I did that scene, it was what she was looking for. What I needed to fix was hard to give as a note, but easier to see what was wrong.



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The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.
-R. Frost


Posted By: POB14
Date Posted: 9/03/06 at 7:14pm

My review of CastMe's recommended book is (finally!) up, as a new thead under this topic.

Bottom line:  it's good, get it!



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POB
Old Bugger, Curmudgeon, and Antisocial B**tard


Posted By: red diva
Date Posted: 9/26/06 at 4:47pm
Re:  the discussion on what to do at the end of an emotional scene so that it doesn't look awkward:  I always have my actors prepare an internal monologue that they can run in their heads until the lights go down.  It gives them something constructive to do, and reflects in their faces and body language.  I know from talking with the audience members that have watched actors doing this that they don't always "get" exactly what it is that the actor is thinking, but that they know he was thinking.  They seem to enjoy putting their own spin on what is going through the actor's mind!

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"I've worked long and hard to earn the right to be called Diva!"


Posted By: Juror #3
Date Posted: 10/11/06 at 5:02pm
If the character has never struck anyone or thought of striking anyone, I would think he/she would be shocked/dismayed to see that hand poised to strike.  I would look at it as if it were a foreign object, not mine at all.  Of course, I would also speak with the director, but if I had a director that didn't provide help and there are a lot out there who just sit out in the theatre and concern themselves only with blocking or less, I would have a choice in mind. 

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Juror #3


Posted By: POB14
Date Posted: 10/12/06 at 11:18am
And then your teeth would fly out and . . . oops, sorry, wrong thread.

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POB
Old Bugger, Curmudgeon, and Antisocial B**tard


Posted By: red diva
Date Posted: 10/12/06 at 3:49pm

juror #3:  Honey, aren't you glad you joined this Board?  You're already a legend! And that certainly would be a way to end a dramatic moment......

Love,

"red"

PS - don't pay any attention to Marty's innuendos.



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"I've worked long and hard to earn the right to be called Diva!"



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