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For crying out loud ...

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Topic: For crying out loud ...
Posted By: Tom_Rylex
Subject: For crying out loud ...
Date Posted: 8/23/05 at 10:27pm
I would like to hear from others on stage crying. What do you do, or what have you seen done that's effective? Alternatively, what has been ineffective? I know there's a whole spectum of crying... pick one. I'd be interested in differences for males vs. females.

I'm curious, as this is an area that I don't get to do on stage often. I tend to be typecast as a comic character, but I would enjoy a serious role now and again.

-Tom


-------------
The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.
-R. Frost



Replies:
Posted By: jayzehr
Date Posted: 8/24/05 at 10:23am

That's a question that's boggled me for a while, too. I'll cry watching a stupid TV commercial or reading something in Reader's Digest but I can't seem to get there on stage.



Posted By: dougb
Date Posted: 8/24/05 at 11:54am
It is not the crying that gets to the audience - it is trying very hard not to cry.  Some people can turn the tears on and off others can not.  I happen to be in the latter group.  So I go to this "I will NOT cry, I will NOT cry" place and that seems to work for my directors and I guess the audience.  There are also tricks like sniffling, blinking rapidly and wiping your eyes that can help if not over done.  I was in a show last weekend where I told a sad story and the woman on stage with me turned on the tears.  There was not one chance in 1000 that the audience could see the actual tears, it was how she handled it, blotting them, wiping them away, acting like she was crying and so on.


Posted By: falstaff29
Date Posted: 8/31/05 at 11:45pm
What's the advice to the players in the Induction of Taming of the Shrew?  Oh, yeah, use an onion.... 


Posted By: Topper
Date Posted: 8/31/05 at 11:52pm
Worst comes to worst you can always turn your back
to the audience, carefully reach up and yank a hair
out of your nostril.

Guaranteed tears every time.

-------------
"None of us really grow up. All we ever do is learn how to behave in public." -- Keith Johnstone


Posted By: Tom_Rylex
Date Posted: 9/01/05 at 7:50pm
Yes... I can just imagine the conversation in the lobby at intermission:

"Did you see that one guy pick his nose on stage?"
"Yeah, he must have hurt himself doing it. His eyes got all teary."
"I think we should avoid him at the meet and greet. He reeks of onions."
"I wouldn't want to shake his hand anyway, after watching that."

>8rD

-Tom


-------------
The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.
-R. Frost


Posted By: Juliet
Date Posted: 9/02/05 at 11:03am

hehe tom. I was in a show which involved my crying at many instances, one where I throw myself at someone and try to beat him to smithereens, but as it is difficult for me to conjure up tears with such drying makeup, I rarely cried. Instead, I did the whole heaving shoulders and gasping, but watch out cuz that can look fake when overdone. This may not work for you also, cuz it is quite feminine. 
 Usually, though, I am able to make myself cry by going through the motions of crying. I don't know if you make a certain face whenever you cry, but I find that if I make that same face, tears automatically come. Also, I cry when I see someone else crying; I don't know if that would work with you, but I just imagine someone close to me sobbing in pain.

 If you can't make yourself cry that way, I suggest, instead of plucking nose hair, try eyebrow hair.



Posted By: triple_threat
Date Posted: 9/03/05 at 2:16pm
I've done a couple of shows with situations that call for crying, but I was
lucky enough to have directors that didn't REQURE me to cry - I think that
knowing people are expecting you to can make it harder.

My approach has always been to concentrate on the emotion rather than the
physical thing first - I find if I get into the right emotional frame of mind,
the tears will come on their own.

K.

-------------
-------
MusicalTheatreAudition.com
~ It's Time To Prepare.


Posted By: Tom_Rylex
Date Posted: 9/03/05 at 2:49pm
These have been interesting reponses, thanks. I guess my initial question was related to the appearance of crying, but this is interesting. This is a good read to see how some of you internalize the appropriate emotions.

Actually being able to produce tears would be an impressive feat for me. That's something I don't even do in my 'normal' life. Maybe deep down I'm just a cold-hearted stage manager d8rD.

The approach that I tend to use is either struggling with trying not to cry, or doing something that's like the crying version of laughing (if that makes sense). But, like I said in the original post, it's been a while since I've had a chance to work on this. I think directors see my comic timing before they see anything else. That's not a complaint, just an observation.

If anyone else has more food for thought on this topic, I'd be interested in seeing it. (Maybe pulling an eyelash would do it... except there'd be a loud scream before the tears come. Scratch that - no hair pulling of any kind. 8rP)

-Tom


-------------
The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.
-R. Frost


Posted By: Wishbone
Date Posted: 9/03/05 at 3:36pm

I find if I think of something really sad that really happened to me I can cry on stage. Like thinking about my friend moving helped me cry when I was in A Little Princess as Sara. If the tears don't come I just fake crying. I find that when I fake cry I end up really crying. I don't know why.

 

Wishbone



Posted By: Toys2Teach
Date Posted: 9/21/05 at 11:19pm

I must be one of the lucky ones... I can cry upon command. The downside is that I get weepy at the most inopportune times... saying the Pledge of Allegiance, thinking about lost kittens, watching my children do anything. 



Posted By: Spectrum
Date Posted: 9/22/05 at 2:47am

I have very rarely had a part that required tears, but when I have cried on-stage, it was because I was so immersed in the character I was playing that the tears were my character's, for all the motivations the character had for crying.  Cry  The trouble with that was my body reacted as if I (the actor, NOT the character) was crying - forget the character.  When I start to cry I have an extremely difficult time speaking, which makes delivering an intelligible line very difficult.  That's what rehearsal is for.

By the way, if I tried plucking a nose hair to muster up tears I'd start sneezing uncontrollably.  Talk about a mood changer...



-------------
Growing old is mandatory. Growing up is optional.


Posted By: Nyria
Date Posted: 9/23/05 at 4:11pm

The ultimate goal is that you are so involved in what is happening that you do cry as the character would - but that doesn't always happen.

If you start to 'act' as if you are crying - shaking lip, tight mouth, sad expression in your eyes etc - it will just come.  SOemthing to do with muscle memory - your body remembers that the last time it was like that it produced tears and voila



-------------
NYRIA


Posted By: irishroyal
Date Posted: 10/02/05 at 11:44am

 In Method Acting we have Affective Memory, which also happens in our everyday lives when we do end up crying over something remembered.

 Affective Memory the the concious creation of remembered emotion which have accured in the actor's own  past life, that you then tranfer over to the charactor you are playing.

 Everyone can think of 9-11 and when you heard the events from that day, the sirens, the crys for help, it affects your emotional memory when you then sit and think about it.

 If I were to use this as an exercise before an audition, you'd sit, prepare by relaxing so the emotions can come thru, and then have the recollection of that day come into your mind. What were you doing at the time you heard about that event, can you hear the TV or radio, can you recall what you felt, what were you wearing, how did it make you feel, so as you go through all of the Sense Memory of that day, it helps to bring out the emotional memory of that day.

 Learning this simple little exercise, that we actually all do all the time, when we smile about the thought of a loved one or child that did something cute,all these are flash cards of memories, that you can practice bringing up to get the emotional reaction you want in any scene.



Posted By: falstaff29
Date Posted: 10/02/05 at 7:13pm

I often have a problem with people who are too into the whole sense memory thing- they get so wrapped up in their "real emotion" that they stop paying attention to all the other stuff (like fellow actors).  It may be powerful to feel real grief and cry from that, but it's also distancing.

There's a careful balance to be struck between being too fake and too real.  I let myself be guided by the script- look at the way the lines are written- the pacing, phrasing, etc.  If you just let yourself get carried by the dialogue (and blocking), whatever happens or doesn't will tend to be appropriate, if not necessarily "real."



Posted By: lalunabella
Date Posted: 10/04/05 at 1:48am

Well I am very new here, and tend to lurk for a while before posting, but I can relate something I was just thinking about last night to this topic.  As actors it is our responsibility to be a vessel for the colaborative (self and directors) vison of the character.  We are to allow the thoughts and emotions of the character to flow in and out of body and mind.  There are many techniques that we are taught to get to get to this place..relaxation, sense memory, silent dialogue, etc. I have always been one to also trust that "action brings on emotion".  Doing the action of something will bring the emotion to the surface.  If you begin banging your fist on a table while repeating a line... soon you will find yourself enfusing the line with anger- action brings on emotion. If you think about how your body feels and how your body reacts to the emotion of crying, and can recreate the action of your body, the emotion will follow. This applies to laughter, etc. As with anything we must first be great observers then imitators.

Well I guess that is my two cents .  Thanks for letting me share.

Lalunabella



Posted By: Nyria
Date Posted: 10/04/05 at 5:44pm

If you want to get really deep and use the Stanislavsky method then really you shouldn't need any tricks or tips -

You should be so into your character and into your given circumstance that the emotions naturally flow.

If you are having trouble with this then you use sensory recall or the 'magic if' - (what if this happened to me). 

Having said that - that's what I teach but personally I find it very hard to be that into a character - but I guess that's why I'm not on Broadway right now eh!



-------------
NYRIA


Posted By: Tom_Rylex
Date Posted: 10/07/05 at 8:21am
Maybe I've never understood the Stanislavsky method completely... . I do believe in being completely in character when on stage. When you are in the mindset of your character, the mannerisms and method of delivering your lines seems natural. It's the 'magic if' that doesn't make sense to me.

A lot of the circumstances of the characters I play are not circumstances that I would expect to find myself in. If they did happen to me, I would handle them differently then the script. I instead decide who the character is based on a careful reading of the script, and the setting. The work from there on out is to put myself in the mindset of that character, and to make sure that I think and react like that character. I may need to adjust slightly as the other actors develop their character, but that's basically what I do.

Maybe I misunderstand what the 'magic if' is supposed to be. I find it necessary to let the character come out of the script as much as possible, partly because how I would react 'if this happened to me' may not work with the author's intent, or make sense with the period of the play. Plus, when I have to be more than one character in a play, I need to let those characters react differently, or it becomes confusing for the audience rather quickly.

That being said, I find that the process of internalizing a character does involve memorizing external actions before they can be internalized. For example, I had a character that was conducting music during one scene. I didn't know how to do that, so I asked our conductor to teach me. Of course it didn't look natural (who'd have thought that independent hand motion was that hard!). However, after weeks of practicing it on my own, I got to the point where I wasn't thinking about how I needed to move my arms. Now I was at the point where I could think (in character): "Ah, yes! Sing, you little money making children!" instead of thinking (as me): "Um, one, two... is my hand supposed to be here? Ok move the left arm, and ... crud! What's the beat count at?"

That's some of what I was getting at with crying. If you know what looks like crying on a stage, you can internalize it in a character and make it look and feel natural, even if that's not something you normally do. Plus, I'd rather do 'stage crying.' Real crying is a bit messy for me, and it would interfere with delivery. It's hard to say a line if all of your mucous membranes swell up, etc.!

-Tom


-------------
The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.
-R. Frost


Posted By: POB14
Date Posted: 10/07/05 at 4:11pm

I've been staying out of this thread, mostly because I knew it would get to this:  Stanislavski vs. Strasberg vs. British systems vs. whatever the flavor of the month is.

And I don't get involved in religious discussions.

But I'll throw a couple of thoughts in now, since the argument has started anyway, and then I'll run away and watch the fireworks.

1) Sense memory is not used onstage.  Not. Not. Not.  It is an exercise.  Like any exercise, if it helps, use it, if not, don't.  But onstage, it is potentially dangerous, distracting, and worst of all, false.  Because your dog didn't die, dammit, Willie Loman did.

2)  Stanislavski explicitly said, over and over, that character building begins with the externals.  Actions, NOT feelings.  He said, and taught, that you must play only actions.  He wrote pages and pages about playing around in the costume shop to help himself look like Othello.  The fact that Strasberg taught something different in his name doesn't change that.

3) Magic If:  One of Stanislavski's pupils (Vakhtangov) put it this way:  "What would I have to do in order to do what the character does in these circumstances?"  Obviously, I don't get to do what I want to do in the circumstances; nobody wants to see a play about me anyway.    I am limited by the author's choices; my job as an actor is to justify them.

Willie's dead.  I'm at his gravesite.  Why am I there?  Why is he dead?  Is it my fault?  Is there something I could have said?  What do we do now?

If I place myself into these circumstances, and really think these thoughts, my reaction will be true to the playwright and to myself.  And if I don't bring actual make-the-costume-wet tears, well, maybe that's because I've spent so many years trying not to, that I can't right now.

But that doesn't mean I'm not crying.

 



-------------
POB
Old Bugger, Curmudgeon, and Antisocial B**tard


Posted By: lalunabella
Date Posted: 10/09/05 at 9:41pm

I dont know if that sense memory comment was directed at me, but just incase- insecurities showing- I just want to say  I was not suggesting that one would "use" that technique on stage. All were mentioned as a means to access- get to that place- of emotion within yourself during rehearsal or workshop.  They were just suggestions of what might work for anyone.  All in all I think every actor must find/create their own "method"(s) of what works for him/her. 

~L   



Posted By: Tom_Rylex
Date Posted: 10/09/05 at 10:05pm
Well, thanks to all on this thread, it has been an interesting discussion. The best practice is practice, so I'll just have to get a part that involves some drama. I'll just have to find a director who hasn't seen me act before, and try to be serious throughout the auditions.

I'm not going to pretend to speak up on the acting systems that have a name slapped on it. I think no matter how important sounding <blank>'s method is, it boils down to what works for you, and what you understand. If someone has named that system, so much the better, I guess. I find it more valuable reading all of your comments. They're frank, they're personal, and you're not trying to sell me something.

-Tom


-------------
The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.
-R. Frost


Posted By: Topper
Date Posted: 10/10/05 at 12:29am
Funny ... Now that you mention it, I CAN sell you a
home-acting program I'm developing. Just send me
your credit-card number and once you receive the
bill, I can guarantee you'll burst into tears!

-------------
"None of us really grow up. All we ever do is learn how to behave in public." -- Keith Johnstone


Posted By: Tom_Rylex
Date Posted: 10/10/05 at 9:14am

*chuckle* Thanks Topper, I'll consider it.

***Buy now, and I'll include the home-acting rage system for free!!!***



-------------
The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.
-R. Frost


Posted By: closetdiva
Date Posted: 10/18/05 at 2:04pm

Hi Tom,

I realize it's been awhile since the last post, but I just wanted to add in some tips that worked for me. I was Trina in "I Remember Mama" (the musical version), and I have always had a hard time crying "on cue." I have to say - the trick of trying not to cry really worked for me, along with pulling my lips together (another post-er mentioned "making [your] crying face").

The one thing the make-up person found out - (at least for women): waterproof, smudgeproof, outlast, long last, infinity - all those kinds of eye make-up - did not cut it - they all smudged & otherwise gave me 'racoon eyes'. She ended up using short fake eyelashes to help bring out my eyes (much easier than having to get made up again after every scene!).

Anyway - hope that helps.



-------------
Duct tape can fix anything - except a dropped line! ;-)


Posted By: PatrickArmagh
Date Posted: 10/18/05 at 3:50pm

Why would you want to do a serious role?  Save the Dram for your Mama!!! 

Tom, you have a gift.  You are playing comedic roles.  Embrace it.

As for crying on stage, there are many methods, but the most important is that if you are in character, in the scene and believe it, you will crying. TO ACT IS TO LISTEN AND BELIEVE.



Posted By: Tom_Rylex
Date Posted: 10/20/05 at 1:22pm

Why a serious role? Fair question.

I would do it because it's there. I would do it BECAUSE I'm either not good at it, or inexperienced. I would do it for the challenge. I would do it to find another way to effect an audience.

A lot of people I know, and audience members assume that I'm just naturally talented in the theatre arts. I'm not. About the only natural proclivity I have is probably for mathematics. What I do have, is a passion for theatre. I love working on a show, and I want it to be good. Not just acceptable, but really, really good.

I'm a decent techie and stage manager, but acting wasn't that easy (and still isn't). I spent a long time learning how to open up as an actor, and to learn the quirks of timing and delivery because I wasn't good at them. I want to look like someone more talented than I am because I worked harder. Over time, I improved, and became a decent comedic character actor.

I also ended up only being able to try out for musicals in my area, because of my schedule. The problem was, I couldn't sing well, couldn't dance, can't read music, and have a hard time keeping a beat. So I made sure I got singing and dancing roles, and just worked tirelessly on it until it looked and sounded good. A new dance step might take me a week (or so) to figure out, but I'll do my best to make it look natural by the time the curtain opens. I worked on singing enough over the "off seasons" that I end up landing solo parts now. One practice, a music director who knows me well actually asked, "What happened? You sound... good! I mean, really good."

The same thing happened in other aspects of theatre, and I find them all rewarding. The goal, whether it's tech work, set design, acting, etc., is to make the audience suspend their disbelief, and really lose themselves in watching your show. That's something I feel they deserve, on any show I'm on. I'd want to perform a serious role to be able to make an audience feel in a way that's different than for a comedic role. I'd want to know that I can do that, because I believe I can.

That's one thing that I enjoy about community theatre: I get to do the things I normally wouldn't be allowed to do otherwise. I wouldn't have learned how to do many things well if I hadn't been allowed to do them poorly at first. Community theatre offers a great place to learn, to teach, and to grow. I love it all, and always look for new places to improve. And I can always be better.

-Tom



-------------
The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.
-R. Frost


Posted By: PatrickArmagh
Date Posted: 10/22/05 at 6:38pm

Remember, a modest man may sometimes seem conceited because he is pleased with the job he has done.  A conceited man is critical of everything he does because he feels his performance is not worthy of his genius.

To grow as an actor is a wonderful thing, and working with performers far more talented than you will certainly make you grow.  So will taking challenges, but most performers will tell you that comedy is the hardest medium of theater.  It take s a gift, and if you excel at comedy, embrace the roles because there are few performer that can perform comedy well.

Think about the joke tellers, there is always someone who can tell you joke you heard before and make you laugh. It is a gift.

Other than that, good luck in you endeavors.




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