Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board: Finding pianists and other musicians

As a director/musical director/vocal director/musician/band-orch member/theater board member, etc., etc., I've seen this vary over the years. But I can address what WE have done with our CT group and what I've seen done by other groups in town - and believe me - the spectrum is quite wide. I'll address each question separately below. Sound like you're at least having some fun and even though it's a professional gig for which you're getting paid, that doesn't preclude the fact that you CAN have a blast doing it if you're qualified...which evidently you are.

Anyway read on.

TonyDi

Originally posted by redhead

Hi Everybody,

My first post to this forum, although I've been reading for a while.

I am a degreed pianist who has only recently started playing for musical theatre. In the fall I did a CT production of Godspell, and this weekend I just did a high school production of The Wizard of Oz.

It's been fun, and I'd like to do more of it. I wanted to get more info from you guys about the music side of things:

1) What do you usually do for musicals? Piano only? Orchestra? Rock band? Tracks?

I've done just about everything you mention and seen other things done the same way. Naturally it depends upon the budget of the theaters or groups doing the shows and what the copyright/licensing companies charge for musicals. As you may or may not know, it's VERY expensive to do musicals - even obscure, old ones sometimes. The cost of renting scores, chorus books, plus the rights and so forth - as well as how big a venue you have, an estimated number of potential tickets you'll sell and more and more - make doing musicals a nightmare sometimes. BUT to your question, I've used and seen used, just pianists, full orchestras, partial orchestras supplemented with tracks, complete track shows, rock bands when it called for that style of music. SO herein is the first scenario wherein you can use a variety of musical support versions. Often it's small ensembles made of pianist, bass, drums, perhaps some brass or woodwind support, occasionally (though rarely) strings and such. But the combinations are endless and are all valid and widely used.

2) Where/how do you find your musicians? Do you use the same people every time? If you had to find a pianist, where would you start?

Well having done a first musical BEGINS to build the list of potential musicians. Word of mouth is a great help, advertising helps, having a public forum to state the needs (like here we get TV coverage or radio coverage sometimes with plenty of expressed needs for musical help along with contact phone numbers and such so if people are interested they can get in touch with the right people). Further, checking with theater directors at local schools, colleges, as well as music directors from churches and on and on. We even have a local listing of the musical instructors (Federated Musicians and Teachers Unions) and get some very accomplished people to play though the pay and rule are significant with union folks BUT you get top notch players. AND often you can get local teachers and/or professional musicians who might just enjoy doing shows for the fun of it at reasonable rates (keeping their union status more on the hush so they don't get fined for playing for non-union companies and so forth). But they're out there. Even scanning the Yellow Pages for musicans, teachers and such helps. It's a lot of networking, phone conversations, keeping track and digging deep sometimes to find qualified and willing people (willing because often budgets are tight for paid orchs). But starting with piano teachers, colleges, churches are the best bet to find pianists - WITH some qualification and reservation as to whom you need and the rigors of playing for a show as opposed to playing hymns only in church. LOTS of GREAT pianists play in church but are they good accompanists? And THAT is almost the required type of pianist you need. After all that's what most musicals are about - accompanying the singers.

3) Along the same lines, who are your musicians, usually? College students? Professional musicians/music teachers? Or people not in the music field, but who just play on the side?

YES on all counts - as I said a wide range of people get involved. Now I have done shows where I used a complete existing orchestra from one of the better high schools here locally and they were excellent - AND luckily were free because the orch director was their teacher in band/orchestra at the school. So it was built in. But the musical needs just have to be met by whomever is good enough and qualified enough to play the music as long as you have a good orchestra/music director who can conduct what they do properly. Anyone who can and is willing to play for the money these days does not go unnoticed nor unlisted (for future use). And the better you can afford to pay, the better musicians you can get....able to play anything just about any way you need it played. We even had the philharmonic orchestra play for one production of West Side Story - and it was unbelievably awesome experience.

4) What do you look for in a pianist? Is it enough to "just know how to play the piano," or do insist on more than that? Do you find it difficult to find qualified pianists and other musicians? What makes a pianist "a cut above"? Do you hold auditions for your pianists, or is it enough for someone to just say they're play the piano, and they'd like to do the show?

Sometimes, depending upon the difficulty of the show you're doing, just "knowing how to play the piano" is sufficient. On the other hand, people who HAVE played for shows before and understand that just playing the piano at times often simply isn't enough because of the difficulties of the music of the show, you get experience over "just knowing how to play the piano"....and THAT is a plus. However, not to diminish the abilities of anyone who CAN play - experience helps immeasurably. For instance, while we all know how good the music is in The Fantasticks, that is NOT for the faint-of-heart pianist. I directed that with a woman who played VERY well, mostly for church and such (and TAUGHT young piano students - beginners and maybe intermediates) - AND SHE could NOT keep the tempos up. The way I wanted it done is precisely what she could NOT do tempo wise. It's NOT an easy show to play at all. West Side Story for instance also - MAJOR difficult to play...I mean come on Leonard Bernstein? TOUGH stuff to play. BUT challenging and fun for the right person.

On the other hand, a colleague of mine played for Roar of the Greasepaint, etc., and THAT is rather difficult to play as well. BUT he was the kind who could say "what key, what tempo, what style do you want it played" and then simply sight read the score and transpose on the fly following you like he was stuck to you, and even if you messed up, he could make you AND the music sound like it was perfection. He even got criticized doing that show (yes I was in it) but he got critiqued for making it sound too "busy" and like it was his own personal piano concert. THAT was bull. HE was just able to make a piano work like an orchestra and fill it full using a solo instrument such that it sounded GREAT in my book (and everyone else's).

What makes a pianist a "cut above" - SEE ABOVE - just being able to play is fine, accuracy, ability to truly follow the singers (excellence as an accompanist a plus), being able to make the piano only sound better than just the piano only always helps too.

Holding auditions for pianists NOTING their experience and capabilities and such sometimes answers a lot of questions. Frankly I've found that MOST pianists don't like to audition because many of them think they're good enough for the rigors of playing theater musical scores. NOT SO!! BUT if I don't know the person and HAVE to audition them (if they're willing) I try to be as polite and make it as painless as possible. The advantage I have is that I do play some myself - nothing great at all nor even close - but I do know music, have a degree in music and have worked with some of the best pianists I've been lucky enough to meet and know. But without that advantage, as long as some pianist is accurate, can follow the music directors direction and is pleasant to work with WITHOUT the ego and attitude - they are highly regarded, graciously and strongly considered and often hired. But again having done enough to know the pool of musicians around, then that's an advantage. There are two I know of right now who I would use at the drop of a hat, no questions asked, and pay them as well as I could afford. But that's not the case everywhere.

5) Have you ever worked with a less-than-stellar musician? How so? What were they lacking? How did that affect the show as a whole -- pr did it not matter?

There have been times when choices were few, people were too busy and I've had to "settle" for someone who might have played OK, not great, but were at least willing and THERE to play. BUT "less-than-stellar" - yes!! How so?? Well, some have had trouble playing the score as written (too many fingers required and not enough on two hands types), some who could not and didn't understand theater music or the direction thereof, and some who had attitude and were unwilling to do what was asked but I HAD to use them because there was no-one else. Technical facility might have often been lacking, willingness to learn, wanted too much money for their ability levels and so forth. HAD to use them, MOST OFTEN didn't affect the show as a whole, just perhaps small moments of pandemonium and fear and confusion....but enough ability to "get through it" without looking bad overall.

6) What would be your advice/plea to musical theater musicians? What should they do -- or not do? What, if anything, drives you crazy?

If they're truly qualified musicians, they must be made to understand that they are TRULY appreciated, paid as well as any CT or non-pro group can afford AND that being able to play well together, with proper and necessary techniques (can you say playing softly) is not diminishing their involvement, their contribution to the show, not diminishing their ego or ability. But that playing just to be heard (I'll tell you a quick story shortly) is not kosher or the mark of a professional musician (necessarily) and being willing to be available, helpful, and consistent is appreciated and considered tops in my book.

NOW the short story - doing ANNIE once, the orchestra was excellent. Made up of many local top-notch musicians some from the Philharmonic, some jazz musicians locally, some college professors and so on. PLUS one trumpet player who played with Doc Severensin's(sp?) band (though not ON the Carson show at the time). BUT this guy was a consummate player - WITH ONE FLAW - he was playing in a community theater production in a relatively small town and was there to be heard...at the expense of good taste and singers who as a group HAD to literally practically scream to be heard. The critics even said they were too loud, the audience did too. AND the critique even used me to get at the orchestra in a round about way...saying, "Bill's rich baritone, came through, providing something for the hearer longing to hear a voice over the orchestra". First I was not a baritone but yes I could hold my own against a too loud orchestra. NEEDLESS to say the orch didn't like me and tried to outplay me every time I had to sing from then on. I blame the director who ALWAYS had orchestras play far too loud - something she was notorious for. Sad.

7) This seems like a controversial subject, but what is typical pay?
I was telling a piano forum that I was getting $400 for 3 shows of The Wizard of Oz (high school performances), and several people said that I was being VERY underpaid; that something like that normally pays at least a thousand dollars. Is that true? Does it just depend on the school? And do schools usually pay more or less than adult CT groups?

Thanks so much; looking forward to the responses!
Redhead

Well again THIS varies QUITE widely. I've seen pianists get paid anywhere from $400 - $500 to play auditions, rehearsals AND the show, up to and including $1,000 - $2,000 to play auditions, rehearsal and the show OR JUST THE SHOW. And the range is wide and can happen anywhere in between. Schools - usually quite minimally as they don't have the budgets (save the couple of schools I worked with in Alabama - whose budgets were over $50,000 to produce a couple shows where I did special makeup effects work for them). They paid their orchestras well - but the music director and pianist were both teachers at the school but were paid well and extra for doing the shows...as well as all their orchestra people too. BUT CT groups depending up their size also might not have huge budgets for musical either. The only exception I've seen in CT groups is with one group who did nothing BUT musicals and only two a year. They were pretty well funded and while not always paid musicians great were usually ok. Even using union orchs whose scale was relatively lousy here, they paid scale and that got pros in for only the last 4 rehearsals and the shows AND limited their time at doing it too....hey they're union, they get breaks, and don't like to work past 11:00 PM.

Your pay of $400 for three shows isn't bad necessarily depending upon the schools ability to AFFORD to pay at all. BUT it's only $133 bucks more or less for each show - of a few hours most likely. SO barely SCALE (what used to be union scale of $35 bucks and hour here) but not really good enough UNLESS you were just a willing participant for the few extra bucks cash in your pocket. I had ONE guy who the theater could NOT afford to pay what he wanted (I WANTED HIM) so they paid half and I promised him the other half from my pay and the stage manager did too. WE SUPPLEMENTED what the CT company couldn't or wouldn't afford to have him - and I'm glad we did because he was great and I knew it - because I'd worked with him before and knew he was worth his weight in gold. But that's rare.

ANYway VERY long winded response but I hope it helps you to what ever degree to get some ideas. Others, I'm sure will also respond and give you a wider range of ideas and answers to your questions from which you can more honestly evaluate these kinds of needs, questions and weigh them all for your future reference. Good luck with it. Hope this all makes some sense to you.

Best

TonyDi

Edited by TonyDi - 4/19/10 at 8:40am

Lights and Sound
Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board :Producing Theater :Lights and Sound

Topic: Finding pianists and other musicians( Topic Closed)