Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board: gun props and laws

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TopherBrowne
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Topic: gun props and laws
Posted: 4/18/10 at 8:44am

Greetings forum. I am stage managing a show here in NW Illinois and am having an argument with the producer about the laws involving prop firearms (non firing replicas). The argument centers around the question of the legality / liabilty of simply pointing the gun at another actor or into the audience. Clearly, there is a safety issue if the prop is going to fire a blank. These props are dummys and have no firing mechanics.

Aside from common sense issues, what are the legal issues here? Is the production / theater violating any statutes by simply having the gun in the hands of one person pointing it at another?

Thanks!

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Spectrum
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Posted: 4/19/10 at 12:54am

In the few instances where we have used a gun on stage (real and otherwise), VERY STRICT safety procedures were applied and very limited access to the props was allowed. As for pointing a gun at someone, we always pointed slightly upstage of the intended victim, "just in case" and NEVER at the audience.

As for legality, you'll have to check with your state. Every state (and maybe even locale) has a different take on this issue.

Growing old is mandatory. Growing up is optional.

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Topper
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Posted: 4/19/10 at 1:26pm

I don't know about laws, but simple common sense and theatre etiquette dictate:

1) Never point a gun directly at another actor.
Like Spectrum suggested, the angle can always be faked.

2) Never point a gun towards the audience.
Even if they are informed ahead of time the guns are only non-firing props, you will get an uncomfortable and most unwelcome reaction from the crowd.

"None of us really grow up. All we ever do is learn how to behave in public." -- Keith Johnstone

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gelcat
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Posted: 4/19/10 at 2:50pm

check with the local constabulary - they'll let you know if the pieces have to have a safety orange marking on them or not or any other restrictions. Signs posted in the lobby are also a good idea. If you don't want to give away too much, you can add other things that appear on the set to the warning, such as :

The production tonight features"

Guns

flowers

Chairs

Curtains

and other items of interest.

Just a thought. I hate to give away strobes and fog being used too, however, those items must be warned as well.

Marsha

www.actorsguildonline.org
Actors Guild of Parkersburg
Parkersburg, WV

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JoeMc
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Posted: 4/19/10 at 6:27pm

As Gelcat posted & suggested ensure you include a warning - just in case the punters start shooting back! Wink

This is rather apt about prop firearms;-
BBC news

Edited by JoeMc - 4/19/10 at 11:00pm

[western] Gondawandaland
"Hear the light & see the sound!
TOI TOI CHOOKAS
{may you always play to a full house!}

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gelcat
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Posted: 4/20/10 at 9:55am

Addendum to above - when we fire blanks, we call the police department, and let them know every night before the show, so if there is a gunshot call, they will call the theatre and verify is there is a situation or not before they come screaming down to the theatre with sirens wailing (we get enough of that- we're on the main road to both hospitals)

www.actorsguildonline.org
Actors Guild of Parkersburg
Parkersburg, WV

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dboris
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Posted: 4/20/10 at 12:47pm

Besides checking on local laws, be sure to also check the policies for the venue you are performing in. This is especially important when working performing in public schools.

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JoeMc
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Posted: 4/23/10 at 1:03am

Although just think how much free publicity this could generate, firing off blanks without informing the local coppers.
Probably best to do it prior to the season, say during tech week to milk the most media exsposure. Wink

There again over there it probably won't even raise an eyebrow, so I believe, dosent gun shots happen quite regular there anyway. Ouch

Edited by JoeMc - 4/23/10 at 1:15am

[western] Gondawandaland
"Hear the light & see the sound!
TOI TOI CHOOKAS
{may you always play to a full house!}

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jtonner
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Posted: 5/03/10 at 2:10pm

When we produced Annie Get Your Gun we rented theatrical weapons from a company in New York (who's name I cannot remember). This is from the same company that rents to Broadway (their website mentioned Les Miz that is how I knew).

There hand guns fired blanks, but were built as real guns. They were .32 caliber guns with a .22 caliber cylinder, and were plugged. With the different clinder size A .22 bullet would be off set and a .32 would be too big. The problem was these are still classified as real guns. They had to be shipped to the local police department and released only to a trained "armourer". We were fortunate we had a former Army Ranger available. We also received permission from the Superintendent of Schools to bring the guns into the high school where we performed.

Using the vendor's procedure for handling the guns, only one person has a key to the locked cases, the guns are handed to the actors just before they break the curtain and are returned once they leave the stage.

They were expensive to rent, and to purchase amunition for (in fact, we ended up not firing the rifles, you only received 50 rounds with the rifles, just enough to cover one show) but they looked good, and the handguns, which we did fire were amazing.

And to reinforce other posts, never point them at another actor or the audience.

John

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clewis
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Posted: 5/06/10 at 12:03pm

Let's not make this more complicated than it is. Prop guns w/o firing mechanisms of any kind only create problems if they are used in the commission of a crime! (Criminal simulation in some states). Don't take them home with you, carry them openly on the street etc.

I agree angles should be "faked" so if pointed into the audience, elevate above head levels and to the side of other actors etc. You can still be "realistic" and not have to deal with the safety issues and legal requirements of using a firing (blank or starters pistols as well) gun.

Id your local "fight master" for details when using weapons on stage otherwise. (Goes for fight sequences as well). The closest university with a drama department likely has someone or contact who will be happy to help. Just be clear about financial limitations etc.

CLewis

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Props, Scenery, Costumes and Makeup
Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board :Producing Theater :Props, Scenery, Costumes and Makeup

Author	Message
TopherBrowne Walk-On Joined: 4/18/10 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 0	Topic: gun props and laws Posted: 4/18/10 at 8:44am
	Greetings forum. I am stage managing a show here in NW Illinois and am having an argument with the producer about the laws involving prop firearms (non firing replicas). The argument centers around the question of the legality / liabilty of simply pointing the gun at another actor or into the audience. Clearly, there is a safety issue if the prop is going to fire a blank. These props are dummys and have no firing mechanics. Aside from common sense issues, what are the legal issues here? Is the production / theater violating any statutes by simply having the gun in the hands of one person pointing it at another? Thanks!

	IP Logged

Spectrum Celebrity Joined: 4/16/04 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 176	Posted: 4/19/10 at 12:54am
	In the few instances where we have used a gun on stage (real and otherwise), VERY STRICT safety procedures were applied and very limited access to the props was allowed. As for pointing a gun at someone, we always pointed slightly upstage of the intended victim, "just in case" and NEVER at the audience. As for legality, you'll have to check with your state. Every state (and maybe even locale) has a different take on this issue.
	Growing old is mandatory. Growing up is optional.
	IP Logged

Topper Celebrity Joined: 1/27/05 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 543	Posted: 4/19/10 at 1:26pm
	I don't know about laws, but simple common sense and theatre etiquette dictate: 1) Never point a gun directly at another actor. Like Spectrum suggested, the angle can always be faked. 2) Never point a gun towards the audience. Even if they are informed ahead of time the guns are only non-firing props, you will get an uncomfortable and most unwelcome reaction from the crowd.
	"None of us really grow up. All we ever do is learn how to behave in public." -- Keith Johnstone
	IP Logged

gelcat Celebrity Joined: 6/12/09 Online Status: Offline Posts: 106	Posted: 4/19/10 at 2:50pm
	check with the local constabulary - they'll let you know if the pieces have to have a safety orange marking on them or not or any other restrictions. Signs posted in the lobby are also a good idea. If you don't want to give away too much, you can add other things that appear on the set to the warning, such as : The production tonight features" Guns flowers Chairs Curtains and other items of interest. Just a thought. I hate to give away strobes and fog being used too, however, those items must be warned as well. Marsha
	www.actorsguildonline.org Actors Guild of Parkersburg Parkersburg, WV
	IP Logged

JoeMc Celebrity Joined: 3/13/06 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 832	Posted: 4/19/10 at 6:27pm
	As Gelcat posted & suggested ensure you include a warning - just in case the punters start shooting back! This is rather apt about prop firearms;- BBC news Edited by JoeMc - 4/19/10 at 11:00pm
	[western] Gondawandaland "Hear the light & see the sound! TOI TOI CHOOKAS {may you always play to a full house!}
	IP Logged

gelcat Celebrity Joined: 6/12/09 Online Status: Offline Posts: 106	Posted: 4/20/10 at 9:55am
	Addendum to above - when we fire blanks, we call the police department, and let them know every night before the show, so if there is a gunshot call, they will call the theatre and verify is there is a situation or not before they come screaming down to the theatre with sirens wailing (we get enough of that- we're on the main road to both hospitals)
	www.actorsguildonline.org Actors Guild of Parkersburg Parkersburg, WV
	IP Logged

dboris Celebrity Joined: 2/10/04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 124	Posted: 4/20/10 at 12:47pm
	Besides checking on local laws, be sure to also check the policies for the venue you are performing in. This is especially important when working performing in public schools.
	IP Logged

JoeMc Celebrity Joined: 3/13/06 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 832	Posted: 4/23/10 at 1:03am
	Although just think how much free publicity this could generate, firing off blanks without informing the local coppers. Probably best to do it prior to the season, say during tech week to milk the most media exsposure. There again over there it probably won't even raise an eyebrow, so I believe, dosent gun shots happen quite regular there anyway. Edited by JoeMc - 4/23/10 at 1:15am
	[western] Gondawandaland "Hear the light & see the sound! TOI TOI CHOOKAS {may you always play to a full house!}
	IP Logged

jtonner Star Joined: 2/02/04 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 56	Posted: 5/03/10 at 2:10pm
	When we produced Annie Get Your Gun we rented theatrical weapons from a company in New York (who's name I cannot remember). This is from the same company that rents to Broadway (their website mentioned Les Miz that is how I knew). There hand guns fired blanks, but were built as real guns. They were .32 caliber guns with a .22 caliber cylinder, and were plugged. With the different clinder size A .22 bullet would be off set and a .32 would be too big. The problem was these are still classified as real guns. They had to be shipped to the local police department and released only to a trained "armourer". We were fortunate we had a former Army Ranger available. We also received permission from the Superintendent of Schools to bring the guns into the high school where we performed. Using the vendor's procedure for handling the guns, only one person has a key to the locked cases, the guns are handed to the actors just before they break the curtain and are returned once they leave the stage. They were expensive to rent, and to purchase amunition for (in fact, we ended up not firing the rifles, you only received 50 rounds with the rifles, just enough to cover one show) but they looked good, and the handguns, which we did fire were amazing. And to reinforce other posts, never point them at another actor or the audience. John
	John
	IP Logged

clewis Walk-On Joined: 2/12/10 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 0	Posted: 5/06/10 at 12:03pm
	Let's not make this more complicated than it is. Prop guns w/o firing mechanisms of any kind only create problems if they are used in the commission of a crime! (Criminal simulation in some states). Don't take them home with you, carry them openly on the street etc. I agree angles should be "faked" so if pointed into the audience, elevate above head levels and to the side of other actors etc. You can still be "realistic" and not have to deal with the safety issues and legal requirements of using a firing (blank or starters pistols as well) gun. Id your local "fight master" for details when using weapons on stage otherwise. (Goes for fight sequences as well). The closest university with a drama department likely has someone or contact who will be happy to help. Just be clear about financial limitations etc. CLewis
	IP Logged