Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board: communication from tech booth to back stage

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Kathy S
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Joined: 8/21/04
Location: United States
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Topic: communication from tech booth to back stage
Posted: 12/04/09 at 6:21pm

I have yet to find a satisfactory system for communication between the tech booth and the backstage area. We have used a system from Radio Shack which was toast in just a couple seasons, and then bought EarTech. It is not reliable either. When I come in and test them they seem to work but when we put some distance between the users and get the other systems started such as lights and sound, they fink out on us.
Is there any kind of system out there which does not use radios? I wonder about a closed circuit telephone system... is that what you would call it? I am really tired of the stress that we put ourselves under trying to run a show without reliable means of communication.

HELP!

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Gaafa
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Location: Australia
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Posted: 12/04/09 at 9:11pm

you can get an intercom system that utalises the venues power circuit line, to communicate. By plugging each unit into a power out [GPO] & just press to talk.

I modified a set years ago by hitching in a mic/cans headset in each unit. However this should be done by a Licenced Sparky rather than a well meaning enthusiast.

If you have a few grand spare knocking about, there are a lot of wire/wire systems on the market.

We just installed a Spanish made Talk Back system in my old theatre groups venue. It cost all up $4000 [AUD], it was a 4 can headset system with a master control unit, that will also acept radio headsets as well. It works very well & each unit is plugged into any of our installed audio patch boards multicore outlets.

There again you can alwayers revert to the old 'Trafic Light' box system, which are easy enough to knock up. In fact I still trot them out these days to use in the Pit, if an MD prefers not to wear cans. We used them for years & they always worked well, of course you loose the Talk Back

Joe
Western Gondawandaland
turn right @ Perth.
Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}

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Kathy S
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Location: United States
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Posted: 12/06/09 at 2:14am

I wonder what the rest of you are using, and is it satisfactory?

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David McCall
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Posted: 12/06/09 at 12:16pm

In the PAC that I work in we have a Telex wired system with 8 single muff headsets and jacks in all of the necessary places. It works fine so far but is a bit expensive for community theater.

One of the community theater groups I work with has several "walkie- talkie" units with really cheap ear bud/mics. The units seem to work OK, but we have a lot of failures in the ear bud/mics. Perhaps they would do better if they were of better quality (more expensive). I don't know what the brand is, but they are pretty cheap. The walkie-talkies have been in use for several years, but the ear buds need to be replaced quite often.

David M

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chairman
Walk-On
Walk-On

Joined: 9/25/09
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Posted: 12/06/09 at 1:15pm

i Kathy;

Here at the Theatre Royal in Barkerville, B.C., a 250 seat historic theatre, we have tried an old head set radio of some kind but then switched to FRS radios. The problem we had was not reception but rapidly discharging batteries, SM's who forgot to charge them and frankly, the disappearance of said radios - either lost or borrowed for hikes.
Last season we added more expensive GMRS radios (from Radio Shack) and had good results. We will likely add more this year as the two system won't talk to each other.
We use them from the SM booth to the FOH, back stage, and before we lost some, to our wandering producer (me).
We have not had any issues but clearly it would depend on the distance and what barriers are between the radios.

You could use base station CBs but there must be other solutions which I am sure this list will suggest.

On a tangental note we also used them for vehicle to vehicle communications during our tours but last year switched to the old CB radios which proved much better and kept the cell phone bills in control. (We have no cell phone coverage in our theatre or town - Yeah!! no jamming needed.)

Richard

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Kathy S
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Joined: 8/21/04
Location: United States
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Posted: 12/07/09 at 12:08pm

Thanks for both of those replies, but I have lost all faith in radio headsets. We only do three productions a year at most, 6 performances with a couple of dress rehearsals that we need these darn things for so it isn't like they are being overused or abused. We are pretty careful with them and charge them as needed. I am just tired of the false sense of security with them. Thank goodness the show we are doing right now has very simple lighting and no curtain so we can see from the tech booth when the scene changes are ready and actors in place with the work lights on.
I suspect that the answer is going to be in the form of some pretty pricey items that will not allow the user to be roaming very far from their posts.

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David McCall
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Posted: 12/07/09 at 12:20pm

Rechargeable batteries are usually not recommended for critical electronic equipment. Especially if the devices are only going to be used occasionally.

If your radios can take regular alkaline batteries, you should try them before you give up. Don't buy cheap store branded batteries. Either change the batteries each night, or get a good battery tester that can test the batteries under a load and make sure your pre-used batteries are up to the task.

David M

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Kathy S
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Joined: 8/21/04
Location: United States
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Posted: 12/07/09 at 2:19pm

I'll check that idea out next time I'm there -- about some name brand regular alkaline batteries, but the first units we had (Radio Shack) used regular alkaline batteries. I'll dig those out again, too and buy some expensive batteries and check them.

The thing is, that we will test the units right before a performance and they seem to work fine, but then once the sound system is turned on and the lighting system turned on, they are kaput!

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Gaafa
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Joined: 3/21/04
Location: Australia
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Posts: 1181

Posted: 12/07/09 at 5:43pm

I feel the problem may be radio interference caused by EMF in your electrical rig, rather gthan the radio talk back sets.

Does the action of using the lighting dimmers effect your audio system normally?

Also I agree with David when using batteries in radio mic or headsets, change them out for fresh ones before each performance & use a quality brand not elcheapos.

Rechargeable batteries whill cause stife & get you into blues than Ginger Megs.

We fronted up our local Duracel distributor & got a couple of boxes of AA & 9volt batteries for a few comps & a free advert. When we need more we either get them free as a promotional sample or at wholsale.

One thing I have found that works with those radio shack type units, is tape the arials in place in the keepers, rather than the crew looking like your favorite marshians.

Joe
Western Gondawandaland
turn right @ Perth.
Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}

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Mr. Lowell
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Joined: 1/30/07
Location: United States
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Posts: 269

Posted: 12/08/09 at 12:34pm

I never use radio intercom in my theatre because of risk of poor reception or interference. Besides, they are just one more thing that needs recharging or batteries before each show. I feel that my biggest job as Designer/Tech Director is to REDUCE the likelihood of Murphy's Law, not to increase it. And wireless headsets are just one more thing to crap out at a critical moment.

When you think about it, the only people on crew who might require having their headsets wireless are the "stagehands" that need to run out on stage a lot. But why? In traditional proscenium theatre doing typical plays, my crew doesn't need wireless. They should have learned all of their specific tasks during Tech Rehearsals, so why do they need constant prompting while running around in the dark? That's why I have never considered buying wireless headsets. Now, if we did a lot of fluid and unrehearsed productions, like rock concerts, then yes, I would definitely want wireless intercom. But for stage plays, it's just overkill.

Although one reason you might want to go with wireless is if you are a theatre company with no "home theatre", and the venues you rent don't own a wired house intercom. In this case you might find it a pain to run your own cables through the house to the stage. So wireless would be a quick fix in the short-term. But if it were me, I would still want to bring in a wired system eventually.

I cannot recommend anything from Radio Shack because they sell "consumer grade" equipment for home and amateur use. You get what you pay for. I recommend spending a little bit extra for professional grade equipment that can stand abuse and will last for ten years or more.

I swear by ClearCom wired intercom headsets. They are outstanding. I have used them for 20 years here and they are reliable and reasonably priced. I also used them as a student in both high school and college. They have a belt-pack control box and are wired using standard XLR microphone cables. (Another professional supplier is Telex, but I have found they are a little pricier and more geared towards the television industry...in fact they were the system of choice in all four TV studios I worked/taught at).

For a musical I generally have 9 people on headset, with a master base-station mounted backstage.

1) Stage Manager in the FOH booth calling the show.

2) ASM stage-right

3) ASM stage-left

4) Followspot 1

5) Followspot 2

6) Fly Crew Chief

7) Light Board Operator in booth

8) Assistant Sound Board Operator in balcony

9) Conductor in pit (a hand-phone unit to confirm the start of each act)

The ClearCom headsets cost $200 each and the belt-packs are $300 each. (My system is hard-wired with outputs everywhere). But you can buy mic cables in 50 or 100 foot lengths for about $25 each to run between stations. I think our big 2-channel base-station was around 500 bucks, but I think the small station in our Black Box was only about $100. Headsets can be "daisy chained" from one crew person to the next from one small and inexpensive base-station.

Yes, it can be a major expense for you to buy a solid, professional system. But it is a good investment that will last for show after show over 10 or 15 years...without paying for batteries or lost and broken wireless units on each show's budget.

Good luck with it! -Dana

Mr. Lowell,
Lighting/Set Designer & Tech Director,
for the Linda Sloan Theatre,
in the Davison Center for the Arts,
at Greensboro Day School

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Lights and Sound
Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board :Producing Theater :Lights and Sound

Topic: communication from tech booth to back stage( Topic Closed)
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Author	Message
Kathy S Celebrity Joined: 8/21/04 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 303	Topic: communication from tech booth to back stage Posted: 12/04/09 at 6:21pm
	I have yet to find a satisfactory system for communication between the tech booth and the backstage area. We have used a system from Radio Shack which was toast in just a couple seasons, and then bought EarTech. It is not reliable either. When I come in and test them they seem to work but when we put some distance between the users and get the other systems started such as lights and sound, they fink out on us. Is there any kind of system out there which does not use radios? I wonder about a closed circuit telephone system... is that what you would call it? I am really tired of the stress that we put ourselves under trying to run a show without reliable means of communication. HELP!

	IP Logged

Gaafa Celebrity Joined: 3/21/04 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1181	Posted: 12/04/09 at 9:11pm
	you can get an intercom system that utalises the venues power circuit line, to communicate. By plugging each unit into a power out [GPO] & just press to talk. I modified a set years ago by hitching in a mic/cans headset in each unit. However this should be done by a Licenced Sparky rather than a well meaning enthusiast. If you have a few grand spare knocking about, there are a lot of wire/wire systems on the market. We just installed a Spanish made Talk Back system in my old theatre groups venue. It cost all up $4000 [AUD], it was a 4 can headset system with a master control unit, that will also acept radio headsets as well. It works very well & each unit is plugged into any of our installed audio patch boards multicore outlets. There again you can alwayers revert to the old 'Trafic Light' box system, which are easy enough to knock up. In fact I still trot them out these days to use in the Pit, if an MD prefers not to wear cans. We used them for years & they always worked well, of course you loose the Talk Back
	Joe Western Gondawandaland turn right @ Perth. Hear the light & see the sound. Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"} May you always play to a full house}
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Kathy S Celebrity Joined: 8/21/04 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 303	Posted: 12/06/09 at 2:14am
	I wonder what the rest of you are using, and is it satisfactory?
	IP Logged

David McCall Celebrity Joined: 1/28/09 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 299	Posted: 12/06/09 at 12:16pm
	In the PAC that I work in we have a Telex wired system with 8 single muff headsets and jacks in all of the necessary places. It works fine so far but is a bit expensive for community theater. One of the community theater groups I work with has several "walkie- talkie" units with really cheap ear bud/mics. The units seem to work OK, but we have a lot of failures in the ear bud/mics. Perhaps they would do better if they were of better quality (more expensive). I don't know what the brand is, but they are pretty cheap. The walkie-talkies have been in use for several years, but the ear buds need to be replaced quite often.
	David M
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chairman Walk-On Joined: 9/25/09 Online Status: Offline Posts: 0	Posted: 12/06/09 at 1:15pm
	i Kathy; Here at the Theatre Royal in Barkerville, B.C., a 250 seat historic theatre, we have tried an old head set radio of some kind but then switched to FRS radios. The problem we had was not reception but rapidly discharging batteries, SM's who forgot to charge them and frankly, the disappearance of said radios - either lost or borrowed for hikes. Last season we added more expensive GMRS radios (from Radio Shack) and had good results. We will likely add more this year as the two system won't talk to each other. We use them from the SM booth to the FOH, back stage, and before we lost some, to our wandering producer (me). We have not had any issues but clearly it would depend on the distance and what barriers are between the radios. You could use base station CBs but there must be other solutions which I am sure this list will suggest. On a tangental note we also used them for vehicle to vehicle communications during our tours but last year switched to the old CB radios which proved much better and kept the cell phone bills in control. (We have no cell phone coverage in our theatre or town - Yeah!! no jamming needed.) Richard
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Kathy S Celebrity Joined: 8/21/04 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 303	Posted: 12/07/09 at 12:08pm
	Thanks for both of those replies, but I have lost all faith in radio headsets. We only do three productions a year at most, 6 performances with a couple of dress rehearsals that we need these darn things for so it isn't like they are being overused or abused. We are pretty careful with them and charge them as needed. I am just tired of the false sense of security with them. Thank goodness the show we are doing right now has very simple lighting and no curtain so we can see from the tech booth when the scene changes are ready and actors in place with the work lights on. I suspect that the answer is going to be in the form of some pretty pricey items that will not allow the user to be roaming very far from their posts.
	IP Logged

David McCall Celebrity Joined: 1/28/09 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 299	Posted: 12/07/09 at 12:20pm
	Rechargeable batteries are usually not recommended for critical electronic equipment. Especially if the devices are only going to be used occasionally. If your radios can take regular alkaline batteries, you should try them before you give up. Don't buy cheap store branded batteries. Either change the batteries each night, or get a good battery tester that can test the batteries under a load and make sure your pre-used batteries are up to the task.
	David M
	IP Logged

Kathy S Celebrity Joined: 8/21/04 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 303	Posted: 12/07/09 at 2:19pm
	I'll check that idea out next time I'm there -- about some name brand regular alkaline batteries, but the first units we had (Radio Shack) used regular alkaline batteries. I'll dig those out again, too and buy some expensive batteries and check them. The thing is, that we will test the units right before a performance and they seem to work fine, but then once the sound system is turned on and the lighting system turned on, they are kaput!
	IP Logged

Gaafa Celebrity Joined: 3/21/04 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1181	Posted: 12/07/09 at 5:43pm
	I feel the problem may be radio interference caused by EMF in your electrical rig, rather gthan the radio talk back sets. Does the action of using the lighting dimmers effect your audio system normally? Also I agree with David when using batteries in radio mic or headsets, change them out for fresh ones before each performance & use a quality brand not elcheapos. Rechargeable batteries whill cause stife & get you into blues than Ginger Megs. We fronted up our local Duracel distributor & got a couple of boxes of AA & 9volt batteries for a few comps & a free advert. When we need more we either get them free as a promotional sample or at wholsale. One thing I have found that works with those radio shack type units, is tape the arials in place in the keepers, rather than the crew looking like your favorite marshians.
	Joe Western Gondawandaland turn right @ Perth. Hear the light & see the sound. Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"} May you always play to a full house}
	IP Logged

Mr. Lowell Celebrity Joined: 1/30/07 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 269	Posted: 12/08/09 at 12:34pm
	I never use radio intercom in my theatre because of risk of poor reception or interference. Besides, they are just one more thing that needs recharging or batteries before each show. I feel that my biggest job as Designer/Tech Director is to REDUCE the likelihood of Murphy's Law, not to increase it. And wireless headsets are just one more thing to crap out at a critical moment. When you think about it, the only people on crew who might require having their headsets wireless are the "stagehands" that need to run out on stage a lot. But why? In traditional proscenium theatre doing typical plays, my crew doesn't need wireless. They should have learned all of their specific tasks during Tech Rehearsals, so why do they need constant prompting while running around in the dark? That's why I have never considered buying wireless headsets. Now, if we did a lot of fluid and unrehearsed productions, like rock concerts, then yes, I would definitely want wireless intercom. But for stage plays, it's just overkill. Although one reason you might want to go with wireless is if you are a theatre company with no "home theatre", and the venues you rent don't own a wired house intercom. In this case you might find it a pain to run your own cables through the house to the stage. So wireless would be a quick fix in the short-term. But if it were me, I would still want to bring in a wired system eventually. I cannot recommend anything from Radio Shack because they sell "consumer grade" equipment for home and amateur use. You get what you pay for. I recommend spending a little bit extra for professional grade equipment that can stand abuse and will last for ten years or more. I swear by ClearCom wired intercom headsets. They are outstanding. I have used them for 20 years here and they are reliable and reasonably priced. I also used them as a student in both high school and college. They have a belt-pack control box and are wired using standard XLR microphone cables. (Another professional supplier is Telex, but I have found they are a little pricier and more geared towards the television industry...in fact they were the system of choice in all four TV studios I worked/taught at). For a musical I generally have 9 people on headset, with a master base-station mounted backstage. 1) Stage Manager in the FOH booth calling the show. 2) ASM stage-right 3) ASM stage-left 4) Followspot 1 5) Followspot 2 6) Fly Crew Chief 7) Light Board Operator in booth 8) Assistant Sound Board Operator in balcony 9) Conductor in pit (a hand-phone unit to confirm the start of each act) The ClearCom headsets cost $200 each and the belt-packs are $300 each. (My system is hard-wired with outputs everywhere). But you can buy mic cables in 50 or 100 foot lengths for about $25 each to run between stations. I think our big 2-channel base-station was around 500 bucks, but I think the small station in our Black Box was only about $100. Headsets can be "daisy chained" from one crew person to the next from one small and inexpensive base-station. Yes, it can be a major expense for you to buy a solid, professional system. But it is a good investment that will last for show after show over 10 or 15 years...without paying for batteries or lost and broken wireless units on each show's budget. Good luck with it! -Dana
	Mr. Lowell, Lighting/Set Designer & Tech Director, for the Linda Sloan Theatre, in the Davison Center for the Arts, at Greensboro Day School
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