Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board: A big ole can 'o worms

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theatre junkie
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Topic: A big ole can 'o worms
Posted: 8/19/08 at 6:27pm

I found sittng on one of my mental shelves, what looks to be a big ole can-o-worms. Please use the link below to read an article that appeared last fall in the major newspaper in my area.

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2620&u_sid=10163703

When I read this article about the mega-budget musicals that area high schools are doing, it brought up a lot of questions for me.

Is this happening in other areas of the country?

Is this a good thing as it is giving huge support to the arts that, traditionally we have only seen for sports at the high school level?

By doing this are we raising a theatre-entitlement generation?

Is this detrimental to Community Theatre as it takes away crowds and money from CT not to mention it may deter people from CT as we do not have this type of budget for our shows?

Or will it help CT by increasing a want of live theatre to not only participate in but to go and see?

I would love to here thoughts. perspectives, etc. Just in case you are wondering after reading this article, all of these high schools have multiple community theatres and college theatres nearby.

Discuss

I am always

Theatre Junkie

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jayzehr
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Posted: 8/19/08 at 11:41pm

While I don't know what you mean by a "theater-entitlement generation" my gut reaction to that is that anyone associating "theater" and "entitlement" is going to be rapidly disabused of the notion very quickly in life.

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jayzehr
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Posted: 8/19/08 at 11:47pm

And as far as big budget musicals go, we don't have the money, the facilities, the expertise or the actors to stage them. There are three high schools in the area that put on big musicals each year, and three colleges and universities, one with a large musical theater program. If someone can scrape together forty grand to put on a high school musical, I guess I say more power to them.

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pdavis69
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Posted: 8/20/08 at 7:42am

I have seen a group pour major money into a show that still stank, and a high school cast put on a show for nearly nothing that was fantastic. It took me a long time to realize it, but money isn't everything. A CT doesn't need 40 grand to put on a show the audience and cast will love.

Patrick L. Davis
Fort Findlay Playhouse

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tristanrobin
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Posted: 8/20/08 at 10:08am

whew - would I LOVE to have that kind of budget! The most I was ever given was 25k for a production of "Mame" - mostly spent on costumes. We have to do "big" musicals with (usually) less than 12k.

More power to these kids who have the luck to be in such privileged circumstances. I wish I had been!

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imamember
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Posted: 8/20/08 at 10:25am

We did a production of Seussical that TANKED!!!!! Spent just over $9,000 on it and it only pulled in about $4,500. We use the community theatre stage and they charge 2 or 3 bucks a ticket. Well to drive people to the show we told the newspaper that the first Sunday was a kids showand tickets would drop from $15 to $5. of course that sold out, but the kicker was the paper misprinted and said both Sunday's were that price. So two shows didn't even pay for themselves and EVERYBODY came to those shows. Got maybe 50 or 60 other nights if that.

The board tries to save face and say that at least people expereinced theatre and they'll be back for other shows.....but seriously...not in this economy!

It was a trainwreck I could write a book about!

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KEB54
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Posted: 8/20/08 at 1:48pm

I think it is fantastic! You're going to hook a lot of kids on theatre and make even more appreciative audience members. I think that can do nothing but help CTs.

Boy! For those kids that stick around after HS and go into the work force, this is a tremendous opportunity for them to get that kind of exposure that they otherwise wouldn't get. Jimmy-the-bread-truck-driver, who in another community wouldn't know what theatre is, may turn out to be your CTs top set builder or lighting board operator because of his HS experience.

Also, if the community has a better understanding of what it takes to put on a production it may make fund-raising easier for the CT. Former HS students may open their wallet when they understand the cost involved.

I see lots of opportunities. I think your CT should strategize around this and use it to your advantage.

KEB

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JoeMc
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Posted: 8/21/08 at 5:23am

Cor blimey! We in CT are lucky to have more than a few thousand to do a musical. I doubt any HS spend more than a few hundred $, there again our schools are pushing it to even raise a platform, as a stage to use.

This is one of the reasons why the 'Mouse' refuses them to allow them to produce the 'High School Musical', because don't have the theatre facilities on a HS campus. What the mouse fails to understand our High Schools cover only the 11 to 15 year olds in general.

I think in this State there is only a handful of Colleges, that have any theatre facilities of note.

I think the most I have ever spent on a musical in comeatre, is $30 000 [AUD]. $8 000 was for Royalty fees, & $11 000 to install an Air conditioner system in the venue.

We rarely hire in sets, lighting, props or costumes. Most community theatres here make do with what they have got. Or make up what they require & achieve more with a lot less.

It completely amuses me when theatre groups, especially in the UK, spend around twenty thousand Pounds on a Pantomime, which is about $40 000 here. I don't know too many around here who would spend that on their yearly budgets?

[western] Gondawandaland
"Hear the light & see the sound!
TOI TOI CHOOKAS
{may you always play to a full house!}

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TonyDi
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Posted: 8/21/08 at 7:27am

I'm about to blow this thread up with what I have to tell you.....perhaps. The last two years, I've been involved in doing the makeup work for two schools in Alabama. One was in a TINY town called ARAB (accent on the first A as in A-rab). They did Into The Woods. As a result of THAT gig, I got connected to the other school in Huntsville where I did the beast makeup for their production of Beauty And The Beast. First of all, the school in ARAB did an incredible job with Sondheim - difficult for high school students. Their budget was $56,000 dollars plus. Now they are so small the high school's theater department is also connected to the local community theater and supported by the same people who support the CT in budget and the work they do. INCREDIBLY involved community of parents, friends, supporters and students all engaged in doing the best that can be done. At the risk of sounding effusive in my praise, they did an incredibly good job with the show from an acting/singing/staging/production value point of view. I was most impressed with those kids.

Secondly, the school in Huntsville, doing BatB, their budget was also in excess of $50,000. Now there are several (like 8 I think) high schools in Huntsville - a much larger town. BUT again, they have incredible community, parental and sponsor support for their shows. I haven't asked the director what he spent THIS year, but it had to be high because they did Les Miserables - complete with turntable, flying things (bridge), barricade, and everything. So I know it had to be costly. BUT AGAIN THIS group was even more amazing than the group in Arab. For kids at 14 - 17 or 18 years old, I could NOT believe how good they were. Amazingly talented to be viewed as stereotypically poor southern areas.

But to the point of all this - in BOTH CASES - with the high budgets they had available, I do NOT think it detracted from anything the community theater groups were doing in either place because of the support system of the community and community theater groups, AND nurtured by both guys who were the teachers/directors of these school theater groups. What I DID see it doing was TRAINING these young people in the BEST possible way by highly qualifed, energetic, enthusiastic, caring, generous men who by the way, ARE TEACHERS FIRST and foremost, and who wanted to give the kids who cared to do the work, the best, most professional, most complete and most supportive program they could give - thus generating the next wave of talented, PREPARED, and qualified young actors, technicians and artists for both the community AND those whose intent is was to go on to careers - some of whom, having been through either program at either HS, HAVE made names for themselves "in the biz" - so to speak, and are successful working actors and actresses.

SO IT CAN be done. It's always done well with money. Is money necessary for great theater to be done? NO!!! BUT no matter what you think, we are seeing a more and more demanding public who is, more and more, coming to expect the flash and glitz from theater in general - be it high school or community, to semi-professional all the way up to Broadway. Is that FAIR? Hardly - some CT's or high schools simply don't have that kind of resource. But don't shoot down those high schools that DO have that support mechanism in place to do the huge shows that require huge budgets....ESPECIALLY when they're executing such incredibly good, solid and successful teaching programs as well. That's not fair either necessarily to think that they're just trying to outdo one another or wasting the resources. From what I have seen in the last three years at these two schools, the kids coming out of those programs will be the best of what will come to community theaters and the profession as a result.

TonyDi

"Almost famous"

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theatre junkie
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Posted: 8/21/08 at 3:35pm

Golly gee-whiz TonyDi!

I didn't see anybody in this thread shooting down the schools that are doing the big budget musicals, nor did anyone accuse them of trying to outdo each other or wasting resources. Most of the posts in this thread are quite positive about this subject. All I was asking for is discussion and opinions (good, bad or indifferent) about this this topic. That's why in my initial post I asked both positive and negative perspective questions. I am wondering have you had other people 'attack' these shows to you at another time?

This is what I love about this forum. Lots of different perspectives and opinions about all topics theatre.

I am,

Theatre Junkie

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Topic: A big ole can 'o worms( Topic Closed)
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Author	Message
theatre junkie Walk-On Joined: 8/08/08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 0	Topic: A big ole can 'o worms Posted: 8/19/08 at 6:27pm
	I found sittng on one of my mental shelves, what looks to be a big ole can-o-worms. Please use the link below to read an article that appeared last fall in the major newspaper in my area. http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2620&u_sid=10163703 When I read this article about the mega-budget musicals that area high schools are doing, it brought up a lot of questions for me. Is this happening in other areas of the country? Is this a good thing as it is giving huge support to the arts that, traditionally we have only seen for sports at the high school level? By doing this are we raising a theatre-entitlement generation? Is this detrimental to Community Theatre as it takes away crowds and money from CT not to mention it may deter people from CT as we do not have this type of budget for our shows? Or will it help CT by increasing a want of live theatre to not only participate in but to go and see? I would love to here thoughts. perspectives, etc. Just in case you are wondering after reading this article, all of these high schools have multiple community theatres and college theatres nearby. Discuss I am always Theatre Junkie

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jayzehr Celebrity Joined: 8/11/05 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 537	Posted: 8/19/08 at 11:41pm
	While I don't know what you mean by a "theater-entitlement generation" my gut reaction to that is that anyone associating "theater" and "entitlement" is going to be rapidly disabused of the notion very quickly in life.
	IP Logged

jayzehr Celebrity Joined: 8/11/05 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 537	Posted: 8/19/08 at 11:47pm
	And as far as big budget musicals go, we don't have the money, the facilities, the expertise or the actors to stage them. There are three high schools in the area that put on big musicals each year, and three colleges and universities, one with a large musical theater program. If someone can scrape together forty grand to put on a high school musical, I guess I say more power to them.
	IP Logged

pdavis69 Celebrity Joined: 3/26/06 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 437	Posted: 8/20/08 at 7:42am
	I have seen a group pour major money into a show that still stank, and a high school cast put on a show for nearly nothing that was fantastic. It took me a long time to realize it, but money isn't everything. A CT doesn't need 40 grand to put on a show the audience and cast will love.
	Patrick L. Davis Fort Findlay Playhouse
	IP Logged

tristanrobin Celebrity Joined: 4/25/05 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 704	Posted: 8/20/08 at 10:08am
	whew - would I LOVE to have that kind of budget! The most I was ever given was 25k for a production of "Mame" - mostly spent on costumes. We have to do "big" musicals with (usually) less than 12k. More power to these kids who have the luck to be in such privileged circumstances. I wish I had been!
	IP Logged

imamember Celebrity Joined: 8/18/08 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 121	Posted: 8/20/08 at 10:25am
	We did a production of Seussical that TANKED!!!!! Spent just over $9,000 on it and it only pulled in about $4,500. We use the community theatre stage and they charge 2 or 3 bucks a ticket. Well to drive people to the show we told the newspaper that the first Sunday was a kids showand tickets would drop from $15 to $5. of course that sold out, but the kicker was the paper misprinted and said both Sunday's were that price. So two shows didn't even pay for themselves and EVERYBODY came to those shows. Got maybe 50 or 60 other nights if that. The board tries to save face and say that at least people expereinced theatre and they'll be back for other shows.....but seriously...not in this economy! It was a trainwreck I could write a book about!
	IP Logged

KEB54 Celebrity Joined: 7/24/08 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 227	Posted: 8/20/08 at 1:48pm
	I think it is fantastic! You're going to hook a lot of kids on theatre and make even more appreciative audience members. I think that can do nothing but help CTs. Boy! For those kids that stick around after HS and go into the work force, this is a tremendous opportunity for them to get that kind of exposure that they otherwise wouldn't get. Jimmy-the-bread-truck-driver, who in another community wouldn't know what theatre is, may turn out to be your CTs top set builder or lighting board operator because of his HS experience. Also, if the community has a better understanding of what it takes to put on a production it may make fund-raising easier for the CT. Former HS students may open their wallet when they understand the cost involved. I see lots of opportunities. I think your CT should strategize around this and use it to your advantage.
	KEB
	IP Logged

JoeMc Celebrity Joined: 3/13/06 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 832	Posted: 8/21/08 at 5:23am
	Cor blimey! We in CT are lucky to have more than a few thousand to do a musical. I doubt any HS spend more than a few hundred $, there again our schools are pushing it to even raise a platform, as a stage to use. This is one of the reasons why the 'Mouse' refuses them to allow them to produce the 'High School Musical', because don't have the theatre facilities on a HS campus. What the mouse fails to understand our High Schools cover only the 11 to 15 year olds in general. I think in this State there is only a handful of Colleges, that have any theatre facilities of note. I think the most I have ever spent on a musical in comeatre, is $30 000 [AUD]. $8 000 was for Royalty fees, & $11 000 to install an Air conditioner system in the venue. We rarely hire in sets, lighting, props or costumes. Most community theatres here make do with what they have got. Or make up what they require & achieve more with a lot less. It completely amuses me when theatre groups, especially in the UK, spend around twenty thousand Pounds on a Pantomime, which is about $40 000 here. I don't know too many around here who would spend that on their yearly budgets?
	[western] Gondawandaland "Hear the light & see the sound! TOI TOI CHOOKAS {may you always play to a full house!}
	IP Logged

TonyDi Celebrity Joined: 9/13/06 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 325	Posted: 8/21/08 at 7:27am
	I'm about to blow this thread up with what I have to tell you.....perhaps. The last two years, I've been involved in doing the makeup work for two schools in Alabama. One was in a TINY town called ARAB (accent on the first A as in A-rab). They did Into The Woods. As a result of THAT gig, I got connected to the other school in Huntsville where I did the beast makeup for their production of Beauty And The Beast. First of all, the school in ARAB did an incredible job with Sondheim - difficult for high school students. Their budget was $56,000 dollars plus. Now they are so small the high school's theater department is also connected to the local community theater and supported by the same people who support the CT in budget and the work they do. INCREDIBLY involved community of parents, friends, supporters and students all engaged in doing the best that can be done. At the risk of sounding effusive in my praise, they did an incredibly good job with the show from an acting/singing/staging/production value point of view. I was most impressed with those kids. Secondly, the school in Huntsville, doing BatB, their budget was also in excess of $50,000. Now there are several (like 8 I think) high schools in Huntsville - a much larger town. BUT again, they have incredible community, parental and sponsor support for their shows. I haven't asked the director what he spent THIS year, but it had to be high because they did Les Miserables - complete with turntable, flying things (bridge), barricade, and everything. So I know it had to be costly. BUT AGAIN THIS group was even more amazing than the group in Arab. For kids at 14 - 17 or 18 years old, I could NOT believe how good they were. Amazingly talented to be viewed as stereotypically poor southern areas. But to the point of all this - in BOTH CASES - with the high budgets they had available, I do NOT think it detracted from anything the community theater groups were doing in either place because of the support system of the community and community theater groups, AND nurtured by both guys who were the teachers/directors of these school theater groups. What I DID see it doing was TRAINING these young people in the BEST possible way by highly qualifed, energetic, enthusiastic, caring, generous men who by the way, ARE TEACHERS FIRST and foremost, and who wanted to give the kids who cared to do the work, the best, most professional, most complete and most supportive program they could give - thus generating the next wave of talented, PREPARED, and qualified young actors, technicians and artists for both the community AND those whose intent is was to go on to careers - some of whom, having been through either program at either HS, HAVE made names for themselves "in the biz" - so to speak, and are successful working actors and actresses. SO IT CAN be done. It's always done well with money. Is money necessary for great theater to be done? NO!!! BUT no matter what you think, we are seeing a more and more demanding public who is, more and more, coming to expect the flash and glitz from theater in general - be it high school or community, to semi-professional all the way up to Broadway. Is that FAIR? Hardly - some CT's or high schools simply don't have that kind of resource. But don't shoot down those high schools that DO have that support mechanism in place to do the huge shows that require huge budgets....ESPECIALLY when they're executing such incredibly good, solid and successful teaching programs as well. That's not fair either necessarily to think that they're just trying to outdo one another or wasting the resources. From what I have seen in the last three years at these two schools, the kids coming out of those programs will be the best of what will come to community theaters and the profession as a result. TonyDi
	"Almost famous"
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theatre junkie Walk-On Joined: 8/08/08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 0	Posted: 8/21/08 at 3:35pm
	Golly gee-whiz TonyDi! I didn't see anybody in this thread shooting down the schools that are doing the big budget musicals, nor did anyone accuse them of trying to outdo each other or wasting resources. Most of the posts in this thread are quite positive about this subject. All I was asking for is discussion and opinions (good, bad or indifferent) about this this topic. That's why in my initial post I asked both positive and negative perspective questions. I am wondering have you had other people 'attack' these shows to you at another time? This is what I love about this forum. Lots of different perspectives and opinions about all topics theatre. I am, Theatre Junkie
	IP Logged