Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board: Beauty and the beast

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Steenberg
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Topic: Beauty and the beast
Posted: 6/06/07 at 9:51am

How do we make the transformation, hyralic ?

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neilfortin
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Posted: 6/06/07 at 10:51am

Are you talking about the Beast's transformation? And What do you mean "making it hydralic"

Community Theater makes us smile

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TonyDi
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Posted: 6/07/07 at 3:28pm

Perhaps they're talking about FLYING the Beast during the transformation. IF THAT IS the case, a special harness and fly system capabilities are required to do it as well as qualified people - or those who can be taught by the professionals to do the flying is the order. Hard to say if this is what was meant but I suspect so. Correct us if we're wrong please or try to specifiy what exactly you're talking about with HYDRAULIC!!

THanks

TonyDi

"Almost famous"

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Steenberg
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Posted: 6/11/07 at 9:36am

Raised him with hydralic

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biggertigger
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Posted: 6/12/07 at 9:52pm

Typically, hydraulics are used for staging for trap doors and set changes (like at Radio City Music Hall). Not sure what version (i.e. Broadway, Tour, or Community) production of BatB you saw, but the use of hydraulics are expensive to have installed. It is quite cheaper to use rigging by a professional company. You can google for a company that can do this.

If you are interested in using hydraulic staging you may want to google for that as well.

Additionally, it would be more helpful to complete explain what you were referring too. (I saw the community theater performance of BatB. During the transformation of the beast, it appeared they used a hydraulic lift for the beast to transform, how was this done.)

The two greatest days in a theater persons life, the day you start a new show and the day the damn thing closes.

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TonyDi
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Posted: 6/13/07 at 7:04am

As you may recall I just did the BEAST makeup for this show in March and the rig they used was a sophisticated harness worn under costume with TWO lift cables connected at the "balance point" at or near the hips (naturally the space has to accommodate FLYING the beast during the transformation). I don't guess you'd have to have fly space - just space for the rigging in the ceiling that will carry the weight and motion as he twirls, sommersaults etc. BUT the harness is REAL specific in its construction, the links on the harness that allow for attaching the cables AND allow them to rotate in all directions is VERY secure and again very specific and people must be trained to at least do the lift - the beast does all the rest of the action like twirling, spinning, etc. on his own using a balance point (yes the cable connections on the harness are adjustable to place the cable on the balance and/or pivot point at the hip). SO it HAS to be done by a professional company who can rent the harness, set up the rigging and train those who will do the set up for it and for the safety of the actor. GREAT looking effect but takes a bit of set-up and learning to get it to look good.

IS THIS what you're talking about? ALL versions I've ever seen FLY the beast - not raise or lower him with hydraulics!! Confused with what you're saying.

Sorry

Tony B

"Almost famous"

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kjadk
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Joined: 6/18/07
Location: Denmark
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Posted: 6/18/07 at 5:28am

Hi Tony

The harness you're talking about - got any more info on that? pic's, links ect.?

You wouldn't happend to have a clip of the transformation do you?

I'm working on the same production as Steenberg - so we're quiet qurious about how it's been solved other places - and we've seen it done with hydralics before, but your way sounds very interesting.

Thanks

Kenneth

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bmiller025
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Posted: 6/19/07 at 11:59pm

Companies that specialize in stage flying are very protective of their proprietary technology. You won't find photos of such harnesses or the hardware that they use anywhere.

I have been involved with a few productions over the past several years that utilized flying. Simple side to side swings from a single set point or lifts straight overhead can be done without much complicated technology. If it gets more complicated, it gets expensive really fast. I did a production of Peter Pan a few years ago. We used Flying By Foy, which is based in Las Vegas in the U.S., and I think they have offices in London as well. We flew Peter, Tinkerbell, and the three children at various times. Lifts and set downs from various positions on the stage, and lifts and tracking across the stage. Two tracks, a few fixed pulleys, etc. It requires very detailed discussions with them regarding exactly what you want to do with the performers ahead of time, and then everything has to be set up and properly counterweighted. They send a technician to set up and oversee construction of everything, and you provide a whole lot of labor, and then the flying crew to operate the machinery in performance.

Such services aren't at all cheap. Expect to pay the equivalent of a couple thousand dollars at minimum per week for maneuvers like that.

I do heartily recommend Flying By Foy. The guy they sent was terrific, and we had a blast working with him. I know there are other companies out there that provide the same services, but I don't remember their names.

I suppose if it is a very simple maneuver, there may be a way to avoid using one of the professional companies, but it definitely requires experienced oversight. Dropping a performer from even ten feet overhead can be quite disastrous, even fatal.

http://www.brianmiller.biz/BrianDesign.htm

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TonyDi
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Posted: 6/20/07 at 7:08am

Sorry for the delay Kenneth - I was hardly on computer at all yesterday when you posted this. At any rate, BMiller is right. FLYING BY FOY are WONDERFUL folks to work with - top notch professionals who set the rigs up, teach you how to do it and then come take the rigs down. EXPENSIVE but I would want nothing less for the expertise involved. Now as for the Beauty and the Beast, it's a little less daunting a fly to do. With Peter Pan there is flying all over the place with several people. With the BEAST it's one person who flies - actually just levitates straight up pretty much from a prone position on the floor or on a platform, raises only as much as 8 - 10 feet off the floor and then there can be some spinning, rotating and such occur as the "transformation" takes place. Now as BMiller said, you'll NEVER see the harness displayed anywhere (at least I've never seen one on the Internet) and unless someone just happens to have some photos they shot of an actor being rigged into it, it's just not going to be displayed freely. Besides unless you could engineer the parts, have an incredibly good leathersmith create it from the right kind of leather, then rig the parts that do the lift, well by the time you'd pay to have all that done you could have a fly company come in, rent you the rig, set it up, do the effect, take it all down and be gone. Now I'm not suggesting that's what you intended to do. It's just not something you should TRY to do on your own.

The harness is VERY VERY SPECIFIC - in that there is more than one size available, they're adjustable to a certain degree, the hardware is incredibly sturdy and again VERY SPECIFIC in it's design to allow for rotating, twirling, spinning, etc. and likely machined from well considered and engineered designs. It allows for various "settings" in order to find the balance point on someone's body so they can be lifted from a lying down position straight up in the air, then they use their own bodies to do the rotating, spinning and so forth. The lift is done simply with two cables at the hips where the hardware attaches and can be adjusted as I said, to find the body's balance and pivoting point. Cables are high tension SMALL black cables capable of lifting a fair amount of weight of course, that must be counter weighted for ease of lifting. HOWEVER, it's a COOL EFFECT. If you've ever seen any flying done live - well it takes my breath away. When I worked on Peter Pan - and when Peter makes the entrance through the windows - it's reminiscent of the remake of Superman with Christopher Reeve and his take offs and landings - so smooth and stable. A VERY cool look

As for finding videos there are some if you go out to YouTube and just type in Beauty and the Beast and there are numerous "transformations" shown on some people's uploaded videos. It's done numerous ways - different for every group almost. BUT it is a cool effect and get the job done needed. So have a look on YouTube's web site and you'll find a lot about BatB out there.

Good luck

TonyDi

"Almost famous"

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Set Design and Construction
Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board :Producing Theater :Set Design and Construction

Author	Message
Steenberg Walk-On Joined: 1/19/07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 0	Topic: Beauty and the beast Posted: 6/06/07 at 9:51am
	How do we make the transformation, hyralic ?

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neilfortin Celebrity Joined: 11/20/06 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 210	Posted: 6/06/07 at 10:51am
	Are you talking about the Beast's transformation? And What do you mean "making it hydralic"
	Community Theater makes us smile
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TonyDi Celebrity Joined: 9/13/06 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 325	Posted: 6/07/07 at 3:28pm
	Perhaps they're talking about FLYING the Beast during the transformation. IF THAT IS the case, a special harness and fly system capabilities are required to do it as well as qualified people - or those who can be taught by the professionals to do the flying is the order. Hard to say if this is what was meant but I suspect so. Correct us if we're wrong please or try to specifiy what exactly you're talking about with HYDRAULIC!! THanks TonyDi
	"Almost famous"
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Steenberg Walk-On Joined: 1/19/07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 0	Posted: 6/11/07 at 9:36am
	Raised him with hydralic
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biggertigger Celebrity Joined: 4/16/07 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 188	Posted: 6/12/07 at 9:52pm
	Typically, hydraulics are used for staging for trap doors and set changes (like at Radio City Music Hall). Not sure what version (i.e. Broadway, Tour, or Community) production of BatB you saw, but the use of hydraulics are expensive to have installed. It is quite cheaper to use rigging by a professional company. You can google for a company that can do this. If you are interested in using hydraulic staging you may want to google for that as well. Additionally, it would be more helpful to complete explain what you were referring too. (I saw the community theater performance of BatB. During the transformation of the beast, it appeared they used a hydraulic lift for the beast to transform, how was this done.)
	The two greatest days in a theater persons life, the day you start a new show and the day the damn thing closes.
	IP Logged

TonyDi Celebrity Joined: 9/13/06 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 325	Posted: 6/13/07 at 7:04am
	As you may recall I just did the BEAST makeup for this show in March and the rig they used was a sophisticated harness worn under costume with TWO lift cables connected at the "balance point" at or near the hips (naturally the space has to accommodate FLYING the beast during the transformation). I don't guess you'd have to have fly space - just space for the rigging in the ceiling that will carry the weight and motion as he twirls, sommersaults etc. BUT the harness is REAL specific in its construction, the links on the harness that allow for attaching the cables AND allow them to rotate in all directions is VERY secure and again very specific and people must be trained to at least do the lift - the beast does all the rest of the action like twirling, spinning, etc. on his own using a balance point (yes the cable connections on the harness are adjustable to place the cable on the balance and/or pivot point at the hip). SO it HAS to be done by a professional company who can rent the harness, set up the rigging and train those who will do the set up for it and for the safety of the actor. GREAT looking effect but takes a bit of set-up and learning to get it to look good. IS THIS what you're talking about? ALL versions I've ever seen FLY the beast - not raise or lower him with hydraulics!! Confused with what you're saying. Sorry Tony B
	"Almost famous"
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kjadk Walk-On Joined: 6/18/07 Location: Denmark Online Status: Offline Posts: 0	Posted: 6/18/07 at 5:28am
	Hi Tony The harness you're talking about - got any more info on that? pic's, links ect.? You wouldn't happend to have a clip of the transformation do you? I'm working on the same production as Steenberg - so we're quiet qurious about how it's been solved other places - and we've seen it done with hydralics before, but your way sounds very interesting. Thanks Kenneth
	IP Logged

bmiller025 Star Joined: 10/06/05 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 82	Posted: 6/19/07 at 11:59pm
	Companies that specialize in stage flying are very protective of their proprietary technology. You won't find photos of such harnesses or the hardware that they use anywhere. I have been involved with a few productions over the past several years that utilized flying. Simple side to side swings from a single set point or lifts straight overhead can be done without much complicated technology. If it gets more complicated, it gets expensive really fast. I did a production of Peter Pan a few years ago. We used Flying By Foy, which is based in Las Vegas in the U.S., and I think they have offices in London as well. We flew Peter, Tinkerbell, and the three children at various times. Lifts and set downs from various positions on the stage, and lifts and tracking across the stage. Two tracks, a few fixed pulleys, etc. It requires very detailed discussions with them regarding exactly what you want to do with the performers ahead of time, and then everything has to be set up and properly counterweighted. They send a technician to set up and oversee construction of everything, and you provide a whole lot of labor, and then the flying crew to operate the machinery in performance. Such services aren't at all cheap. Expect to pay the equivalent of a couple thousand dollars at minimum per week for maneuvers like that. I do heartily recommend Flying By Foy. The guy they sent was terrific, and we had a blast working with him. I know there are other companies out there that provide the same services, but I don't remember their names. I suppose if it is a very simple maneuver, there may be a way to avoid using one of the professional companies, but it definitely requires experienced oversight. Dropping a performer from even ten feet overhead can be quite disastrous, even fatal.
	http://www.brianmiller.biz/BrianDesign.htm
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TonyDi Celebrity Joined: 9/13/06 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 325	Posted: 6/20/07 at 7:08am
	Sorry for the delay Kenneth - I was hardly on computer at all yesterday when you posted this. At any rate, BMiller is right. FLYING BY FOY are WONDERFUL folks to work with - top notch professionals who set the rigs up, teach you how to do it and then come take the rigs down. EXPENSIVE but I would want nothing less for the expertise involved. Now as for the Beauty and the Beast, it's a little less daunting a fly to do. With Peter Pan there is flying all over the place with several people. With the BEAST it's one person who flies - actually just levitates straight up pretty much from a prone position on the floor or on a platform, raises only as much as 8 - 10 feet off the floor and then there can be some spinning, rotating and such occur as the "transformation" takes place. Now as BMiller said, you'll NEVER see the harness displayed anywhere (at least I've never seen one on the Internet) and unless someone just happens to have some photos they shot of an actor being rigged into it, it's just not going to be displayed freely. Besides unless you could engineer the parts, have an incredibly good leathersmith create it from the right kind of leather, then rig the parts that do the lift, well by the time you'd pay to have all that done you could have a fly company come in, rent you the rig, set it up, do the effect, take it all down and be gone. Now I'm not suggesting that's what you intended to do. It's just not something you should TRY to do on your own. The harness is VERY VERY SPECIFIC - in that there is more than one size available, they're adjustable to a certain degree, the hardware is incredibly sturdy and again VERY SPECIFIC in it's design to allow for rotating, twirling, spinning, etc. and likely machined from well considered and engineered designs. It allows for various "settings" in order to find the balance point on someone's body so they can be lifted from a lying down position straight up in the air, then they use their own bodies to do the rotating, spinning and so forth. The lift is done simply with two cables at the hips where the hardware attaches and can be adjusted as I said, to find the body's balance and pivoting point. Cables are high tension SMALL black cables capable of lifting a fair amount of weight of course, that must be counter weighted for ease of lifting. HOWEVER, it's a COOL EFFECT. If you've ever seen any flying done live - well it takes my breath away. When I worked on Peter Pan - and when Peter makes the entrance through the windows - it's reminiscent of the remake of Superman with Christopher Reeve and his take offs and landings - so smooth and stable. A VERY cool look As for finding videos there are some if you go out to YouTube and just type in Beauty and the Beast and there are numerous "transformations" shown on some people's uploaded videos. It's done numerous ways - different for every group almost. BUT it is a cool effect and get the job done needed. So have a look on YouTube's web site and you'll find a lot about BatB out there. Good luck TonyDi
	"Almost famous"
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Topic: Beauty and the beast( Topic Closed)