Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board: Guideline for time between scene changes

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Gaafa
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Posted: 2/05/07 at 10:24pm

To me it would depend upon the length of each act.
Also if your ameatre can handle the logistics of the punters needs for a Smokeo or a mass Dunny rush!
Which could create problems, especial with the fairer gender returning to the house, usually in tandem, where by blokes tend to fly solo.
I’m nut sure what your demographics of age & mobility is, but if it is mainly of the Blue Rinse Set, This might be a nightmare for the performers, with late returns of the Bos’s.

Joe
Western Gondawandaland
turn right @ Perth.
Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}

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falstaff29
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Posted: 3/19/07 at 11:05pm

Faster scene changes are always better. Don't be afraid to practice scene changes to get them down right.

Also, music is always better than silence during the change.

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TimW
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Posted: 3/24/07 at 5:34pm

I would have to agree that speed is essential, but safety is more important. (Gee, has this already been said?). I Always use music between changes, it helps keep the audience quiet initially. I also agree that the choeography of a scene change is great, as long as everyone does their part and only their part! I have done shows where a person completed their job then 'just helped' move another prop, only delaying the change because the actual person responsible for that prop couldn't find it.

When I did Noises Off, we had our change down to just over 3 min. That required 8 people to turn an entire set around and replace the set pieces. Still one of my top shows to do for the set.

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Mr. Lowell
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Posted: 3/25/07 at 1:21am

Hi Kim, welcome to the forum.

Every facility is set up differently and every theatre troup has their own ways of doing things. But as a rule, I try to never do scene changes longer that 15 seconds. With most being 3 to 10 seconds. I feel that long, slow scene changes can kill the pace and flow of a good show.

If you have a set for "Fiddler" that takes 2 minutes to dismantle and move, then wow, I feel like that's too long. If a major change can't be done during an intermission, or it can't be done upstage behind an "in-one scene", or it can't be done creatively in view of the audience, then go back to the drawing board. Can the bulky set pieces be simplified in some way? Can you use alternate methods?

Rented backdrops only take 5 seconds to fly in and 3 seconds to fly out. But if you don't have a counterweight fly system, then how about using some creative multi-scene transforming elements. Could your wagons or flats STAY ON STAGE but merely rotate or open up in some way to transform into the next scene?

Economize on space by giving every set piece more than one use. The second time I did "Guys and Dolls", I built a unit that the crew dubbed "The Transformer". It was the "news stand" called for in the Street Scene. But I made all the shelves full of magazines roll upside down to reveal liquor bottles for the "bar" used in the Cabana Scene. Then the unit was spun around backwards to reveal a mock "pipe organ" for the Mission Scene. I did this out of necessity because there was NO wing space at all. ...the mother of invention...

If you have limited wing space, then how about doing fragmentary scenic elements instead of fully-realized set units? Audiences really only need some simple visual cues to understand where a particular scene is located. If a fragmentary wall with one window communicates "interior" to the spectator, then why bother building three complete walls with three windows?

The second time I designed "Fiddler", I built stylized two-dimensional facades of all the rustic homes in Tevye's village. And then when we needed to see inside his house, or the tailor shop, or the tavern, well then, the facades would simply swing open on hinges to reveal basic interior settings. Exterior village lighting would change to area lighting that delineated the interior of a house.

I didn't have to force the audience to sit in the dark while the crew rolled heavy wagons to and from the wings. The hinged facades were pulled open by chorus members, in view of the audience, during 3 second cross-fades of the area lighting. The intrumental music in the score was all that was needed to cover these transitions, so I did not have to beg the Music Director to vamp. I like that.

I realize that every theatre has different equipment and different ways of doing things. But one thing that I have always taken pride in has been quick and flowing set changes. For musicals, I like to have the set pieces struck by the time the applause for the previous scene completely stops. Then the orchestra plays a 10 or 15 second reprise to cover the noise of the new set rolling on...meanwhile the cast quickly pre-sets themselves in the dark...and boom, lights up!

A musical is a freight train in motion. No commercial breaks like on TV. Keep the ball rolling. Your modern audience is the MTV generation - in the laptop computer age - who talk at the movie theater! If you leave them lingering in the dark for too long they will instinctively reach for a remote to surf for a new channel.

As a designer, I hate having to resort to asking my Music Director to vamp. During the first dress rehearsal of "The Music Man" for instance, I got frustrated with one particular scene change and pleaded for a 10 second bridge of music. I needed to cover the huge scenery transition from the River City street to the Paroo House exterior AND interior. Well, the crew finally got into a groove. And by the second performance of our run, my (high school) crew had improved their speed to just 3 seconds! Argh! They had their scene change COMPLETED before the conductor ramped up that extra piece of music! I hated sitting in the dark listening to all that vamping for no reason! But by that point, I didn't have the courage to ask the Music Director to strike a reprise that I'd fought so hard to insert...

Some scene changes are actually more fun when done in full or partial view of the audience. People like tech stuff. So if it fits within the style of the play...then let them watch.

We rotated our massive two-story house for "Noises Off" in about 60 seconds as the audience intently watched...and applauded. For "Miracle Worker", I wanted to go to blackout every time my 20' wide turntable rotated between the Keller Diningroom and Garden House. But the Director, Linda Sloan, said, "hey, that transition is very intriguing and very theatrical for our audience to watch, so just give me a 10 second cross-fade in the lighting with moody music". And she was right, it was fabulous. Those transitions became thematic visual interludes that the audience needed to gestate the emotions each scene.

Two weeks ago I did "Disney's High School Musical" with a middle school age cast and crew. My personal goal was for no set change without music longer than 3 seconds, or with music longer than 15 seconds. Luckily the stage version of the show comes with a new character that can stall for time as the stagehands work in the dark. I put "Jack the morning announcements kid" on a proscenium TV screen. Every scene change was completed within the time it took him to say his lines. Blackouts that didn't call for Jack had a brief reprise of a number, if needed.

Kim, going back to your set design for "Fiddler on the Roof"...all I can offer for insight is to "not try to reproduce the photo-reality of the Topol motion picture". The audience has seen it and brings all that powerfull imagery with them, as baggage...positive or negative.

All you need are small tastes of that rustic environment to revive those feelings and make each of your scenes work. A rustic fence. A broken wagon wheel. A bent and gnarly tree with no leaves. A hut with whisps of smoke coming from the chimney. That's enough. No need to rebuild rural Russia in 1/2 scale. Give your patrons credit to use their own imaginations. It always amazes me how much they fill in the blanks when given limited information.

Because, when it all comes down to it, it's all about the moment, not the scenery. Someone stands in a spotlight - sings "Sunrise, Sunset" - the patrons get all choked up. That's what we shoot for.

In my opinion, this moment can be just as powerful in front of a black velour drape as it is in front of a ten thousand dollar scenic masterpiece. Yes...a sentiment that may seem odd to hear coming from a designer. But when it all comes down to it, everything I do is simply window dressing to enhance a performance that is ALREADY stellar.

In other words, keep it simple and don't sweat the set.

-Dana

Mr. Lowell,
Lighting/Set Designer & Tech Director,
for the Linda Sloan Theatre,
in the Davison Center for the Arts,
at Greensboro Day School

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avcastner
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Joined: 12/21/06
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Posted: 4/01/07 at 8:01pm

The goal should be 20 seconds for an average scene change, but others will take up to a minute. Here's how I do a complex one:

Get the model, or use standard items to represent different things on the set.
Get everyone involved with the change together to talk it out.
Make paperclip figures to represent your actors who have to exit in the dark.
Figure out which ways they exit--try not to change their exit routes at this point unless it is absolutely unavoidable.
If there are a lot of set furnishings/props, assign the actors to grab a few of the smaller ones that are near them as they exit.
Inform everyone why they have to get off stage right away.
If you are flying any drops, make sure the cast and crew know where the drop zone is and when it's coming in or going out.
Figure out how many deck crew/actors not in the next scene can move furniture/set pieces on or off.
Divide the stage into thirds. Strike the downstage third first, then the central third, and lastly the upstage third.
As soon as one section is struck, have other personnel bring in the new pieces for that section.
Work this out with your model before you go live.
If you must have a violinist playing during the scene changes, try "Flight of the Bumblebee." It will keep your crew moving. I usually have my pianist play some ragtime.
Write down what happens, when it happens, and who does it. Make diagrams. Make a poster.
Practice it with full lights slow, full lights at speed, scene change lights slow, and lastly scene change lights at speed.
When it's good, it will almost seem like a choreographed dance under dim lighting.
Don't short your crew on light. If they need more, give it to them.
REMEMBER: SAFETY FIRST!

It may take 10 or 20 runs in a tech rehearsal to get it right. Let everyone know that. In fact, if you know you have a big change to rehearse, try doing it at the beginning of the rehearsal while everyone is fresh and not quite so grumpy. Then move on with the rehearsal in the proper order. You would be amazed at how smoothly it will run when you finally get to it in the run of the play itself--and how much confidence your crew will have at that point.

Make sure that you write EVERYTHING down: who does it, when do they do it, and what do they do. Draw diagrams. Make scene change posters for backstage. Make notecards for your crew and actors to sequester in their pockets.

Hope this helps.

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Topic: Guideline for time between scene changes( Topic Closed)
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Author	Message
Gaafa Celebrity Joined: 3/21/04 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1181	Posted: 2/05/07 at 10:24pm
	To me it would depend upon the length of each act. Also if your ameatre can handle the logistics of the punters needs for a Smokeo or a mass Dunny rush! Which could create problems, especial with the fairer gender returning to the house, usually in tandem, where by blokes tend to fly solo. I’m nut sure what your demographics of age & mobility is, but if it is mainly of the Blue Rinse Set, This might be a nightmare for the performers, with late returns of the Bos’s.
	Joe Western Gondawandaland turn right @ Perth. Hear the light & see the sound. Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"} May you always play to a full house}
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falstaff29 Celebrity Joined: 9/17/04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 155	Posted: 3/19/07 at 11:05pm
	Faster scene changes are always better. Don't be afraid to practice scene changes to get them down right. Also, music is always better than silence during the change.
	IP Logged

TimW Star Joined: 8/10/06 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 83	Posted: 3/24/07 at 5:34pm
	I would have to agree that speed is essential, but safety is more important. (Gee, has this already been said?). I Always use music between changes, it helps keep the audience quiet initially. I also agree that the choeography of a scene change is great, as long as everyone does their part and only their part! I have done shows where a person completed their job then 'just helped' move another prop, only delaying the change because the actual person responsible for that prop couldn't find it. When I did Noises Off, we had our change down to just over 3 min. That required 8 people to turn an entire set around and replace the set pieces. Still one of my top shows to do for the set.
	IP Logged

Mr. Lowell Celebrity Joined: 1/30/07 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 269	Posted: 3/25/07 at 1:21am
	Hi Kim, welcome to the forum. Every facility is set up differently and every theatre troup has their own ways of doing things. But as a rule, I try to never do scene changes longer that 15 seconds. With most being 3 to 10 seconds. I feel that long, slow scene changes can kill the pace and flow of a good show. If you have a set for "Fiddler" that takes 2 minutes to dismantle and move, then wow, I feel like that's too long. If a major change can't be done during an intermission, or it can't be done upstage behind an "in-one scene", or it can't be done creatively in view of the audience, then go back to the drawing board. Can the bulky set pieces be simplified in some way? Can you use alternate methods? Rented backdrops only take 5 seconds to fly in and 3 seconds to fly out. But if you don't have a counterweight fly system, then how about using some creative multi-scene transforming elements. Could your wagons or flats STAY ON STAGE but merely rotate or open up in some way to transform into the next scene? Economize on space by giving every set piece more than one use. The second time I did "Guys and Dolls", I built a unit that the crew dubbed "The Transformer". It was the "news stand" called for in the Street Scene. But I made all the shelves full of magazines roll upside down to reveal liquor bottles for the "bar" used in the Cabana Scene. Then the unit was spun around backwards to reveal a mock "pipe organ" for the Mission Scene. I did this out of necessity because there was NO wing space at all. ...the mother of invention... If you have limited wing space, then how about doing fragmentary scenic elements instead of fully-realized set units? Audiences really only need some simple visual cues to understand where a particular scene is located. If a fragmentary wall with one window communicates "interior" to the spectator, then why bother building three complete walls with three windows? The second time I designed "Fiddler", I built stylized two-dimensional facades of all the rustic homes in Tevye's village. And then when we needed to see inside his house, or the tailor shop, or the tavern, well then, the facades would simply swing open on hinges to reveal basic interior settings. Exterior village lighting would change to area lighting that delineated the interior of a house. I didn't have to force the audience to sit in the dark while the crew rolled heavy wagons to and from the wings. The hinged facades were pulled open by chorus members, in view of the audience, during 3 second cross-fades of the area lighting. The intrumental music in the score was all that was needed to cover these transitions, so I did not have to beg the Music Director to vamp. I like that. I realize that every theatre has different equipment and different ways of doing things. But one thing that I have always taken pride in has been quick and flowing set changes. For musicals, I like to have the set pieces struck by the time the applause for the previous scene completely stops. Then the orchestra plays a 10 or 15 second reprise to cover the noise of the new set rolling on...meanwhile the cast quickly pre-sets themselves in the dark...and boom, lights up! A musical is a freight train in motion. No commercial breaks like on TV. Keep the ball rolling. Your modern audience is the MTV generation - in the laptop computer age - who talk at the movie theater! If you leave them lingering in the dark for too long they will instinctively reach for a remote to surf for a new channel. As a designer, I hate having to resort to asking my Music Director to vamp. During the first dress rehearsal of "The Music Man" for instance, I got frustrated with one particular scene change and pleaded for a 10 second bridge of music. I needed to cover the huge scenery transition from the River City street to the Paroo House exterior AND interior. Well, the crew finally got into a groove. And by the second performance of our run, my (high school) crew had improved their speed to just 3 seconds! Argh! They had their scene change COMPLETED before the conductor ramped up that extra piece of music! I hated sitting in the dark listening to all that vamping for no reason! But by that point, I didn't have the courage to ask the Music Director to strike a reprise that I'd fought so hard to insert... Some scene changes are actually more fun when done in full or partial view of the audience. People like tech stuff. So if it fits within the style of the play...then let them watch. We rotated our massive two-story house for "Noises Off" in about 60 seconds as the audience intently watched...and applauded. For "Miracle Worker", I wanted to go to blackout every time my 20' wide turntable rotated between the Keller Diningroom and Garden House. But the Director, Linda Sloan, said, "hey, that transition is very intriguing and very theatrical for our audience to watch, so just give me a 10 second cross-fade in the lighting with moody music". And she was right, it was fabulous. Those transitions became thematic visual interludes that the audience needed to gestate the emotions each scene. Two weeks ago I did "Disney's High School Musical" with a middle school age cast and crew. My personal goal was for no set change without music longer than 3 seconds, or with music longer than 15 seconds. Luckily the stage version of the show comes with a new character that can stall for time as the stagehands work in the dark. I put "Jack the morning announcements kid" on a proscenium TV screen. Every scene change was completed within the time it took him to say his lines. Blackouts that didn't call for Jack had a brief reprise of a number, if needed. Kim, going back to your set design for "Fiddler on the Roof"...all I can offer for insight is to "not try to reproduce the photo-reality of the Topol motion picture". The audience has seen it and brings all that powerfull imagery with them, as baggage...positive or negative. All you need are small tastes of that rustic environment to revive those feelings and make each of your scenes work. A rustic fence. A broken wagon wheel. A bent and gnarly tree with no leaves. A hut with whisps of smoke coming from the chimney. That's enough. No need to rebuild rural Russia in 1/2 scale. Give your patrons credit to use their own imaginations. It always amazes me how much they fill in the blanks when given limited information. Because, when it all comes down to it, it's all about the moment, not the scenery. Someone stands in a spotlight - sings "Sunrise, Sunset" - the patrons get all choked up. That's what we shoot for. In my opinion, this moment can be just as powerful in front of a black velour drape as it is in front of a ten thousand dollar scenic masterpiece. Yes...a sentiment that may seem odd to hear coming from a designer. But when it all comes down to it, everything I do is simply window dressing to enhance a performance that is ALREADY stellar. In other words, keep it simple and don't sweat the set. -Dana
	Mr. Lowell, Lighting/Set Designer & Tech Director, for the Linda Sloan Theatre, in the Davison Center for the Arts, at Greensboro Day School
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avcastner Star Joined: 12/21/06 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 85	Posted: 4/01/07 at 8:01pm
	The goal should be 20 seconds for an average scene change, but others will take up to a minute. Here's how I do a complex one: Get the model, or use standard items to represent different things on the set. Get everyone involved with the change together to talk it out. Make paperclip figures to represent your actors who have to exit in the dark. Figure out which ways they exit--try not to change their exit routes at this point unless it is absolutely unavoidable. If there are a lot of set furnishings/props, assign the actors to grab a few of the smaller ones that are near them as they exit. Inform everyone why they have to get off stage right away. If you are flying any drops, make sure the cast and crew know where the drop zone is and when it's coming in or going out. Figure out how many deck crew/actors not in the next scene can move furniture/set pieces on or off. Divide the stage into thirds. Strike the downstage third first, then the central third, and lastly the upstage third. As soon as one section is struck, have other personnel bring in the new pieces for that section. Work this out with your model before you go live. If you must have a violinist playing during the scene changes, try "Flight of the Bumblebee." It will keep your crew moving. I usually have my pianist play some ragtime. Write down what happens, when it happens, and who does it. Make diagrams. Make a poster. Practice it with full lights slow, full lights at speed, scene change lights slow, and lastly scene change lights at speed. When it's good, it will almost seem like a choreographed dance under dim lighting. Don't short your crew on light. If they need more, give it to them. REMEMBER: SAFETY FIRST! It may take 10 or 20 runs in a tech rehearsal to get it right. Let everyone know that. In fact, if you know you have a big change to rehearse, try doing it at the beginning of the rehearsal while everyone is fresh and not quite so grumpy. Then move on with the rehearsal in the proper order. You would be amazed at how smoothly it will run when you finally get to it in the run of the play itself--and how much confidence your crew will have at that point. Make sure that you write EVERYTHING down: who does it, when do they do it, and what do they do. Draw diagrams. Make scene change posters for backstage. Make notecards for your crew and actors to sequester in their pockets. Hope this helps.
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