Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board: doors of doom{?}

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puck
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Topic: doors of doom{?}
Posted: 4/19/06 at 3:01am

I'm probably going to sound like a total dolt in asking this, but 'ere goes.

I've desinged a set for Arsenic and Old Lace and it's heavily stylized; you might want to think Tim Burton gets married to Das Cabinet du Dr Caligari....

The TD will probaly have my head on a platter once it gets to building time, but could someone please, please PLEASE explain to me why a door must be square.

If the door is designed to be all wonky and crazy, and if the door itself is built to fit in that wonky shape, then does it really need to be square? I would think it would hang and hinge just fine.

But I probably sound like every other foolish designer who knows nothing about the mysteries of construction.

(x-posted for purposes of musing)

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Joan54
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Posted: 4/19/06 at 9:57am

Two important things to keep in mind....you can build a door any shape or size that you want (think of the round hobbit doors) as long as the shape of the door matches the shape of the door jamb. If the peg doesn't fit in the hole you're in trouble.

The second thing is that the doors hang. All of the weight of the door pivots on the hinges and this causes the door jamb to flex out of shape everytime the door is opened. Eventually..even in a house with standard walls....the door jamb distorts until it is no longer the shape of the door. The door will stick and the audience will enjoy the unexpected slap-stick of an actor who cannot get on or off the stage.

Solutions? Make the door as light as possible and the jamb as heavy and as stiff and as well-supported as you can. Make sure you put a sill across the bottom of the door. A sill will help keep the side jambs from spreading everytime someone opens the door. This sounds easier than it is.

Leave a good sized gap between the door and the jamb. In a real door the jamb and the door are always a tight fit to keep out the cold drafts....you don't have to worry about that.

Don't bother fussing with a real door knob, strike plate etc. Often when doors stick it is a hardware problem. Make the doorknob a fake or "dummy" so it doesn't turn. The door stays closed with a magnetic catch.

I work on antique houses and a lot of the doorways in these houses have sagged considerably over the last several hundred years. The walls sag out of shape as the floors fail and the old owners just kept cutting down the doors as the jambs tilted out of square....they are like trapezoids - but still open and close.

A door doesn't have to be square..the square peg has to fit the square hole.

Your set sounds great....good luck making it all stand up.

"behind a thin wall of logic panic is waiting to stampede"

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Topper
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Posted: 4/19/06 at 11:38am

To emphasize what Joan 54 said about a door must HANG.

If the walls are not perpendicular to the floor, and the hinge side of the jamb is tilted fore or aft, the door will be difficult to control and (depending on which side you place your hinges) either slam shut immediately once the actor has let go of the handle, or swing open and crash into whatever is behind it.

If the walls are straight up and down (plumb and true to the vertical)then the door can be -- theoretically -- any shape as long as its hinge(s) line up with each other and operate along the same plane.

"None of us really grow up. All we ever do is learn how to behave in public." -- Keith Johnstone

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Shatcher
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Posted: 4/19/06 at 5:28pm

You can make a door any shape you want and all the thing stated above are true however it is much eaiser to make a square door. We are all used to that and know how to do it. theatre carps often have to figure out how to build weird stuff and make it work. That is what makes it fun. good luck

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puck
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Posted: 4/21/06 at 9:38am

Thanks guys, you've given me some wonderful ammunition!

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jayzehr
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Posted: 6/25/06 at 6:41pm

Hi Puck:
How did that set turn out? Do you have any pictures?

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puck
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Posted: 8/21/06 at 7:03pm

It turned out ... fabulous. I had no clue if The Experiment would work... but methinks it did:
http://photos.yahoo.com/frozzenstar

they're in the Arsenic folder...

We dressed up as zombies for curtain call and danced to 'Thriller'.

A TON of fun.

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castMe
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Posted: 8/21/06 at 8:52pm

It LOOKS like it was a ton of fun! Kinda like Edward Gorey meets Tim Burton. Well done.

I must find a show in which to use the "crooked door" idea.

Investigate. Imagine. Choose.

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Set Design and Construction
Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board :Producing Theater :Set Design and Construction

Author	Message
puck Player Joined: 4/12/06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 0	Topic: doors of doom{?} Posted: 4/19/06 at 3:01am
	I'm probably going to sound like a total dolt in asking this, but 'ere goes. I've desinged a set for Arsenic and Old Lace and it's heavily stylized; you might want to think Tim Burton gets married to Das Cabinet du Dr Caligari.... The TD will probaly have my head on a platter once it gets to building time, but could someone please, please PLEASE explain to me why a door must be square. If the door is designed to be all wonky and crazy, and if the door itself is built to fit in that wonky shape, then does it really need to be square? I would think it would hang and hinge just fine. But I probably sound like every other foolish designer who knows nothing about the mysteries of construction. (x-posted for purposes of musing)

	IP Logged

Joan54 Celebrity Joined: 10/03/05 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 207	Posted: 4/19/06 at 9:57am
	Two important things to keep in mind....you can build a door any shape or size that you want (think of the round hobbit doors) as long as the shape of the door matches the shape of the door jamb. If the peg doesn't fit in the hole you're in trouble. The second thing is that the doors hang. All of the weight of the door pivots on the hinges and this causes the door jamb to flex out of shape everytime the door is opened. Eventually..even in a house with standard walls....the door jamb distorts until it is no longer the shape of the door. The door will stick and the audience will enjoy the unexpected slap-stick of an actor who cannot get on or off the stage. Solutions? Make the door as light as possible and the jamb as heavy and as stiff and as well-supported as you can. Make sure you put a sill across the bottom of the door. A sill will help keep the side jambs from spreading everytime someone opens the door. This sounds easier than it is. Leave a good sized gap between the door and the jamb. In a real door the jamb and the door are always a tight fit to keep out the cold drafts....you don't have to worry about that. Don't bother fussing with a real door knob, strike plate etc. Often when doors stick it is a hardware problem. Make the doorknob a fake or "dummy" so it doesn't turn. The door stays closed with a magnetic catch. I work on antique houses and a lot of the doorways in these houses have sagged considerably over the last several hundred years. The walls sag out of shape as the floors fail and the old owners just kept cutting down the doors as the jambs tilted out of square....they are like trapezoids - but still open and close. A door doesn't have to be square..the square peg has to fit the square hole. Your set sounds great....good luck making it all stand up.
	"behind a thin wall of logic panic is waiting to stampede"
	IP Logged

Topper Celebrity Joined: 1/27/05 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 543	Posted: 4/19/06 at 11:38am
	To emphasize what Joan 54 said about a door must HANG. If the walls are not perpendicular to the floor, and the hinge side of the jamb is tilted fore or aft, the door will be difficult to control and (depending on which side you place your hinges) either slam shut immediately once the actor has let go of the handle, or swing open and crash into whatever is behind it. If the walls are straight up and down (plumb and true to the vertical)then the door can be -- theoretically -- any shape as long as its hinge(s) line up with each other and operate along the same plane.
	"None of us really grow up. All we ever do is learn how to behave in public." -- Keith Johnstone
	IP Logged

Shatcher Celebrity Joined: 2/21/05 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 251	Posted: 4/19/06 at 5:28pm
	You can make a door any shape you want and all the thing stated above are true however it is much eaiser to make a square door. We are all used to that and know how to do it. theatre carps often have to figure out how to build weird stuff and make it work. That is what makes it fun. good luck
	IP Logged

puck Player Joined: 4/12/06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 0	Posted: 4/21/06 at 9:38am
	Thanks guys, you've given me some wonderful ammunition!
	IP Logged

jayzehr Celebrity Joined: 8/11/05 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 537	Posted: 6/25/06 at 6:41pm
	Hi Puck: How did that set turn out? Do you have any pictures?
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puck Player Joined: 4/12/06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 0	Posted: 8/21/06 at 7:03pm
	It turned out ... fabulous. I had no clue if The Experiment would work... but methinks it did: http://photos.yahoo.com/frozzenstar they're in the Arsenic folder... We dressed up as zombies for curtain call and danced to 'Thriller'. A TON of fun.
	IP Logged

castMe Celebrity Joined: 11/02/05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 206	Posted: 8/21/06 at 8:52pm
	It LOOKS like it was a ton of fun! Kinda like Edward Gorey meets Tim Burton. Well done. I must find a show in which to use the "crooked door" idea.
	Investigate. Imagine. Choose.
	IP Logged

Topic: doors of doom{?}( Topic Closed)