Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board: Flashpot ..... is it dangerous?

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Karin
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Topic: Flashpot ..... is it dangerous?
Posted: 10/28/08 at 8:17pm

I am directing Cinderella for our middle school's spring musical and would like some awesome special effects for the rags to riches as well as appearance of the fairy godmother. Can anyone tell me if a flashpot works well .... and is it dangerous? Is there any school theatre program who has been allowed to use it. Do I need to hire a pyrotechnician?

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JoeMc
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Posted: 10/29/08 at 4:22am

Crikey I reckon!

They can be flamin dangerous, over here we need to have a Pyro Licence from the Department of Mines & explosives. Which is quite a rigours course & lengthy to pass the licence requirements.

You could simulate it with smoke & lighting as a blinder, quite easily. This gear could be hired in, rather than paying a pyrotechie & you will probably sleep better after it!

[western] Gondawandaland
"Hear the light & see the sound!
TOI TOI CHOOKAS
{may you always play to a full house!}

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pdavis69
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Posted: 10/29/08 at 7:55am

Usually I'm a big fan of pyro effects (we just do them ourselves and I know we should proably get fire department OK so don't jump on me Joe), but for a school, I'd suggest a light and air cannon effect. Compressed air into a tube of glitter confetti in front of a bright light gives a safe "fire" effect.

Patrick L. Davis
Fort Findlay Playhouse

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skoehler
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Posted: 10/29/08 at 7:57am

Laws are pretty strict here as well, ever since the fire at the Rhode Island night club a decade ago or so the enforcement has really picked up.
I still have some scar tissue from a pot that was wired incorrectly, so yes the license is a must. I completely agree with Joe on this one, smoke and good lighting will do the job just as well and with no danger to the cast.

Steven Koehler
Managing Director
Civic Theatre of Greater Lafayette
www.lafayettecivic.org

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JoeMc
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Posted: 10/29/08 at 11:32am

I too love pyro effects Patrick, in fact one of my sons, who is one of the founders of 'Skydive Express' demo team. Has quite an extensive pyro set up section, in his auto mechanical business workshop. He & his mates do most of the major Skydiving demos, with pyro, here locally.

Even though he is super careful, he has burnt his legs badly, when it went a rye & got out of his control.

I agree with you Steven, that night club fire , should never of happened. Besides being complete stupidity, the pyro shot into a an acoustic foam wall & resulting in perpetuation of the fire. Besides all the punters being overcome by smoke & their bodies blocking off the all exits.

But it can happen so quickly, created by just a small chain of circumstances.

[western] Gondawandaland
"Hear the light & see the sound!
TOI TOI CHOOKAS
{may you always play to a full house!}

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skoehler
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Posted: 10/29/08 at 11:41am

Not to mention that if you do pyro on your own, with no license and without getting clearance from your local fire marshall, if, God Forbid, there is an accident you could be looking at some serious criminal charges. The pyro tech, who as I recall was not licensed, in the night club fire was charged initially with murder. This is not something to be taken lightly. The accident was completely stupid and avoidable, but I am willing to bet that there are still hundreds of potentially similar events every single day in the US. I was guilty of doing it without a license myself, and outside of one accident was VERY lucky. The one accident was on myself, so obviously I did not file charges against myself, and the injury was bad, but not horrible.
Pyro is really cool, no doubt, but it takes one small slip with the stuff and you can be in a world of trouble and hurt.

Sorry if the tone of this post is a little overbearing, but this is a big issue in my mind, and although there has been nothing like Rhode Island in several years (that we now of) that does not mean that pyro is safe.

Steven Koehler
Managing Director
Civic Theatre of Greater Lafayette
www.lafayettecivic.org

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TonyDi
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Posted: 10/29/08 at 4:56pm

Uh never mind I got that wrong.... the last thing I posted in this space. There was a question as to whether The Beverly Hills supper club in Northern KY near Cincinnati was the object of pyro by a band hired to play at a wedding reception though it was found to be faulty aluminum wiring which led to the banning of aluminum wiring for use to wire buildings AND also to more stringent laws about code enforcement and sprinkler systems in commercial buildings. BUT the fact remained that PYRO is not for the amateur who might view it as innocuous and easy stuff - and should be left to the pros. Even the pros say "those who play with fire are destined to get burned" And I know that's a common cliche - that has other meanings - but it sure fits here.

Be safe and find alternative ways to do what you need to do. It's in the arsenal of theater people to be creative and find safer ways to do this stuff. Play safe and be careful and have fun.

TonyDi

"Almost famous"

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corkymork
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Posted: 11/01/08 at 2:37pm

Though I've never tried it, I thought of a safe alternative to a flashpot.
The idea is to put some talcum powder in a balloon, and inflate it. Tape a flashbulb (the kind they used to use in cameras) to the bottom of the balloon, and wire the bulb to a switch and battery. Put the whole thing in a bag/box/can or whatever to hide it. When you need the explosion, close the switch, firing the flashbulb. The bulb makes a flash for the explosion and generates enough heat to pop the balloon, which makes a bang and releases the powder (smoke).
I did a similar thing last year for Pajama Game where there was supposed to be a small explosion in a sabotaged sewing machine. I got one of those party poppers that looks like a little bottle and shoots streamers when the string is pulled. I removed the paper bottom and the streamers, and put in talcum powder, then replace the bottom. The actor palmed the gimmick, and pulled the string on cue, resulting in a pop and "smoke".

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RoseColored Gla
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Posted: 11/01/08 at 7:17pm

Okay....here's a simple way to do the effect, withOUT the use of pyrotechnics. In fact, this is how the touring company did it. I do not know the script well enough to be able to tell when exactly the "real" Cindy left the stage. Also not sure because the trick was done so seamlessly.

There was a spot before the coach came in that allowed Cindy to go offstage, and the next time she came on, it was a body double in the same costume, wig, etc. and the staging was such that she faced US the whole time. The real Cindy is doing the vocals, but offstage, while the girl onstage is lipsyncing. The real Cindy is changing into the big beautiful ball gown.

When the Coach comes on, she walks on, hidden US of the coach. During the song, the body double begins doing travelling spins to behind the coach and stops, then the REAL Cindy continues the travelling spins out the other side of the coach, all in time to the music.

This got THUNDEROUS applause....almost show-stopping.

It is one of those things that I would devote alot of time and planning to because the timing is everything! If it is not done well, it might as well not be done.

Dennis Dippary
Artistic Director
Songs for a New WorldRoseColored Glasses
May Dionysus smile upon your every performance!

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Karin
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Joined: 12/27/06
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Posted: 11/04/08 at 7:53pm

Thanks so much!!! What a wonderful idea. I appreciate you taking the time to share your experience.

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Props, Scenery, Costumes and Makeup
Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board :Producing Theater :Props, Scenery, Costumes and Makeup

Topic: Flashpot ..... is it dangerous?( Topic Closed)
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Author	Message
Karin Lead Joined: 12/27/06 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 47	Topic: Flashpot ..... is it dangerous? Posted: 10/28/08 at 8:17pm
	I am directing Cinderella for our middle school's spring musical and would like some awesome special effects for the rags to riches as well as appearance of the fairy godmother. Can anyone tell me if a flashpot works well .... and is it dangerous? Is there any school theatre program who has been allowed to use it. Do I need to hire a pyrotechnician?

	IP Logged

JoeMc Celebrity Joined: 3/13/06 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 832	Posted: 10/29/08 at 4:22am
	Crikey I reckon! They can be flamin dangerous, over here we need to have a Pyro Licence from the Department of Mines & explosives. Which is quite a rigours course & lengthy to pass the licence requirements. You could simulate it with smoke & lighting as a blinder, quite easily. This gear could be hired in, rather than paying a pyrotechie & you will probably sleep better after it!
	[western] Gondawandaland "Hear the light & see the sound! TOI TOI CHOOKAS {may you always play to a full house!}
	IP Logged

pdavis69 Celebrity Joined: 3/26/06 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 437	Posted: 10/29/08 at 7:55am
	Usually I'm a big fan of pyro effects (we just do them ourselves and I know we should proably get fire department OK so don't jump on me Joe), but for a school, I'd suggest a light and air cannon effect. Compressed air into a tube of glitter confetti in front of a bright light gives a safe "fire" effect.
	Patrick L. Davis Fort Findlay Playhouse
	IP Logged

skoehler Lead Joined: 5/19/08 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 37	Posted: 10/29/08 at 7:57am
	Laws are pretty strict here as well, ever since the fire at the Rhode Island night club a decade ago or so the enforcement has really picked up. I still have some scar tissue from a pot that was wired incorrectly, so yes the license is a must. I completely agree with Joe on this one, smoke and good lighting will do the job just as well and with no danger to the cast.
	Steven Koehler Managing Director Civic Theatre of Greater Lafayette www.lafayettecivic.org
	IP Logged

JoeMc Celebrity Joined: 3/13/06 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 832	Posted: 10/29/08 at 11:32am
	I too love pyro effects Patrick, in fact one of my sons, who is one of the founders of 'Skydive Express' demo team. Has quite an extensive pyro set up section, in his auto mechanical business workshop. He & his mates do most of the major Skydiving demos, with pyro, here locally. Even though he is super careful, he has burnt his legs badly, when it went a rye & got out of his control. I agree with you Steven, that night club fire , should never of happened. Besides being complete stupidity, the pyro shot into a an acoustic foam wall & resulting in perpetuation of the fire. Besides all the punters being overcome by smoke & their bodies blocking off the all exits. But it can happen so quickly, created by just a small chain of circumstances.
	[western] Gondawandaland "Hear the light & see the sound! TOI TOI CHOOKAS {may you always play to a full house!}
	IP Logged

skoehler Lead Joined: 5/19/08 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 37	Posted: 10/29/08 at 11:41am
	Not to mention that if you do pyro on your own, with no license and without getting clearance from your local fire marshall, if, God Forbid, there is an accident you could be looking at some serious criminal charges. The pyro tech, who as I recall was not licensed, in the night club fire was charged initially with murder. This is not something to be taken lightly. The accident was completely stupid and avoidable, but I am willing to bet that there are still hundreds of potentially similar events every single day in the US. I was guilty of doing it without a license myself, and outside of one accident was VERY lucky. The one accident was on myself, so obviously I did not file charges against myself, and the injury was bad, but not horrible. Pyro is really cool, no doubt, but it takes one small slip with the stuff and you can be in a world of trouble and hurt. Sorry if the tone of this post is a little overbearing, but this is a big issue in my mind, and although there has been nothing like Rhode Island in several years (that we now of) that does not mean that pyro is safe.
	Steven Koehler Managing Director Civic Theatre of Greater Lafayette www.lafayettecivic.org
	IP Logged

TonyDi Celebrity Joined: 9/13/06 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 325	Posted: 10/29/08 at 4:56pm
	Uh never mind I got that wrong.... the last thing I posted in this space. There was a question as to whether The Beverly Hills supper club in Northern KY near Cincinnati was the object of pyro by a band hired to play at a wedding reception though it was found to be faulty aluminum wiring which led to the banning of aluminum wiring for use to wire buildings AND also to more stringent laws about code enforcement and sprinkler systems in commercial buildings. BUT the fact remained that PYRO is not for the amateur who might view it as innocuous and easy stuff - and should be left to the pros. Even the pros say "those who play with fire are destined to get burned" And I know that's a common cliche - that has other meanings - but it sure fits here. Be safe and find alternative ways to do what you need to do. It's in the arsenal of theater people to be creative and find safer ways to do this stuff. Play safe and be careful and have fun. TonyDi
	"Almost famous"
	IP Logged

corkymork Walk-On Joined: 11/01/08 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 0	Posted: 11/01/08 at 2:37pm
	Though I've never tried it, I thought of a safe alternative to a flashpot. The idea is to put some talcum powder in a balloon, and inflate it. Tape a flashbulb (the kind they used to use in cameras) to the bottom of the balloon, and wire the bulb to a switch and battery. Put the whole thing in a bag/box/can or whatever to hide it. When you need the explosion, close the switch, firing the flashbulb. The bulb makes a flash for the explosion and generates enough heat to pop the balloon, which makes a bang and releases the powder (smoke). I did a similar thing last year for Pajama Game where there was supposed to be a small explosion in a sabotaged sewing machine. I got one of those party poppers that looks like a little bottle and shoots streamers when the string is pulled. I removed the paper bottom and the streamers, and put in talcum powder, then replace the bottom. The actor palmed the gimmick, and pulled the string on cue, resulting in a pop and "smoke".
	IP Logged

RoseColored Gla Player Joined: 8/15/08 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 27	Posted: 11/01/08 at 7:17pm
	Okay....here's a simple way to do the effect, withOUT the use of pyrotechnics. In fact, this is how the touring company did it. I do not know the script well enough to be able to tell when exactly the "real" Cindy left the stage. Also not sure because the trick was done so seamlessly. There was a spot before the coach came in that allowed Cindy to go offstage, and the next time she came on, it was a body double in the same costume, wig, etc. and the staging was such that she faced US the whole time. The real Cindy is doing the vocals, but offstage, while the girl onstage is lipsyncing. The real Cindy is changing into the big beautiful ball gown. When the Coach comes on, she walks on, hidden US of the coach. During the song, the body double begins doing travelling spins to behind the coach and stops, then the REAL Cindy continues the travelling spins out the other side of the coach, all in time to the music. This got THUNDEROUS applause....almost show-stopping. It is one of those things that I would devote alot of time and planning to because the timing is everything! If it is not done well, it might as well not be done.
	Dennis Dippary Artistic Director Songs for a New WorldRoseColored Glasses May Dionysus smile upon your every performance!
	IP Logged

Karin Lead Joined: 12/27/06 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 47	Posted: 11/04/08 at 7:53pm
	Thanks so much!!! What a wonderful idea. I appreciate you taking the time to share your experience.
	IP Logged