Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board: Q about cost of producing a musical

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katnel
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Joined: 9/25/04
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Topic: Q about cost of producing a musical
Posted: 9/25/04 at 1:54pm

I'm trying to get an idea of how much royalties generally cost per production of a musical. I can't obtain a quote unless we complete an online application at the official website, and we are a long way from being ready to do that right now. My new theater group just presented our first show, a non-musical. Now we're looking for a way to produce "Little Shop of Horrors" for "next-to-nothing." I have an idea of how much we can expect to pay to rent the theater we have in mind (it only seats about 60) and to use our connections (with musician and director and graphic designer friends, ETC.) to save major bucks in areas that would normally be costly.

Now I just need a rough estimate as to how much royalties might cost us for this particular musical and for as few as four and as many as 8 performances. Also, is there a way to save money by photocopying scripts and scores without getting into trouble? Obviously, I'm just starting out and would appreciate any and all responses--especially those related to estimated costs of rights and royalties per performance of "Little Shop..." Are there any suggestions for other ways we might be able to save money in producing this show as well?

Thanks in advance!

Charlotte, NC

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DanB
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Posted: 9/25/04 at 10:28pm

Musical rights vary depending on house size, ticket price, popularity of the show, etc. With a show like Little Shop, I would not be surprised if you had to pay $1500-$2000 for the rights, even for a short run. You are not permitted to photocopy scripts, that is a copyright violation. Usually the rights house will require you to rent a basic set of performance materials (scripts, scores, etc), if you use them or not.

The other big program with Little Shop is the plant (actually plants, there are 4 different ones in the show). Unless you know someone who will give you the plant for free, this could be a very costly item.

If you are not locked into Little Shop and really want to do a musical "on the cheap" you may want to look at a different show.

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DanLB
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Joined: 5/18/04
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Posted: 9/25/04 at 10:34pm

... also, filling out the online application does not obligate you to go through with the show. After you fill out the info, the rights house will send you a contract to sign with the costs before they send you any materials. If the costs don't look good to you, you can reject the contract and not do the show.

Dan

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katnel
Guest
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Posted: 9/30/04 at 3:21pm

Thank you for your very useful responses. Is there any way anyone could venture to guess roughly for me (even if it's a wild guess!) how much I might expect to pay per performance just in rights and royalties for Little Shop? (I realize that the score package is separate and another fairly hefty expenditure in itself.) I'd like to put that question out there to anyone who might have any idea whatsoever (because I don't--yet) before I fill out the actual online application. We may not do this play for another few years yet, depending on how much we find out that we can expect to pay. Thanks! :)

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Gaafa
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Joined: 3/21/04
Location: Australia
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Posts: 1181

Posted: 10/01/04 at 4:25am

I normally work on $AUD2 seat /performance [For the rights, script & score hire ect,.] & of course you may have to add a ?%? figure, that is normally charged on the gross box office sales - this I leave until I have worked out the combined ?bums ratio factor?. The factor depends on the type of musical & the punter appeal demographics. [Depending on the total box office receipts that are likely to be sold per performance.] If it is say a ratio of 3 con?s to every 2 full [$10 con & $15 full] it would be $60 for each 5 seats sold = $2400 per performance [100 seat house per show.]

I hope I haven?t confused the situation?

{I must find an easier & simpler way of explaining the ?bums ratio factor?? But at my age - this works for me!}

Chookas Katnel

Joe
Western Gondawandaland
turn right @ Perth.
Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}

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jtonner
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Joined: 2/02/04
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 56

Posted: 10/01/04 at 8:06am

We produced Little Shop in 2002. For a 200 seat community theatre with $10.00 tickets, the royalties were $200.00 per performance. For our group, the average cost per performance runs from 170-200 per performance. This has been the average for Tams, MTI, French and R&H over the past four or five years.

Of course it all depends on the size of your house and your ticket price. If you have a large theatre (over 400 seats) the price will go up, sometime substantially. If that happens, you can negotiate with the company and block off seats to lower your royalty. Just inform the company of how many you will sell, and you are contractually obligated to block off all extra seats.

Since you are a new theatre group and may not have done a musical before, remember you will be responsible not only for rights and rental of materials, but also for a deposit. These deposits can run from $400.00 to $1000.00 so you will need enough money to cover this also.

John

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dougb
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Joined: 3/30/04
Location: United States
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Posts: 148

Posted: 10/01/04 at 11:00am

There was a thread on this topic on the AACT site several months back. As I remember, the royalty cost was 10% of the potential income (seats times ticket price) plus music rental (around $600 for a full blown score with orchestra) and a refundable deposit.

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Gaafa
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Joined: 3/21/04
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1181

Posted: 10/02/04 at 1:38am

{$60 for each 5 seats sold = $2400 per performance [100 seat house per show.] }

As usual I did the math?s wrong!

I?m as thick as 2 short planks at times - & just as dense!

[ I think my math?s brain cells rolled out in the Ambulance, after my last stroke & their flaming ?lost property department? hasn?t found or returned them yet!!!]

What it should have been was $1200 per performance.

I only ever work on 25% of the total full occupancy for the season, as the provisional budget for the show!

So I have an idea if it would be viable &/or what I need to do to increase or support the bottom line amount - before doing the show!

Chookas

Joe
Western Gondawandaland
turn right @ Perth.
Hear the light & see the sound.
Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"}
May you always play
to a full house}

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Author	Message
katnel Walk-On Joined: 9/25/04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 0	Topic: Q about cost of producing a musical Posted: 9/25/04 at 1:54pm
	I'm trying to get an idea of how much royalties generally cost per production of a musical. I can't obtain a quote unless we complete an online application at the official website, and we are a long way from being ready to do that right now. My new theater group just presented our first show, a non-musical. Now we're looking for a way to produce "Little Shop of Horrors" for "next-to-nothing." I have an idea of how much we can expect to pay to rent the theater we have in mind (it only seats about 60) and to use our connections (with musician and director and graphic designer friends, ETC.) to save major bucks in areas that would normally be costly. Now I just need a rough estimate as to how much royalties might cost us for this particular musical and for as few as four and as many as 8 performances. Also, is there a way to save money by photocopying scripts and scores without getting into trouble? Obviously, I'm just starting out and would appreciate any and all responses--especially those related to estimated costs of rights and royalties per performance of "Little Shop..." Are there any suggestions for other ways we might be able to save money in producing this show as well? Thanks in advance! Charlotte, NC

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DanB Guest	Posted: 9/25/04 at 10:28pm
	Musical rights vary depending on house size, ticket price, popularity of the show, etc. With a show like Little Shop, I would not be surprised if you had to pay $1500-$2000 for the rights, even for a short run. You are not permitted to photocopy scripts, that is a copyright violation. Usually the rights house will require you to rent a basic set of performance materials (scripts, scores, etc), if you use them or not. The other big program with Little Shop is the plant (actually plants, there are 4 different ones in the show). Unless you know someone who will give you the plant for free, this could be a very costly item. If you are not locked into Little Shop and really want to do a musical "on the cheap" you may want to look at a different show.
	IP Logged

DanLB Lead Joined: 5/18/04 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 36	Posted: 9/25/04 at 10:34pm
	... also, filling out the online application does not obligate you to go through with the show. After you fill out the info, the rights house will send you a contract to sign with the costs before they send you any materials. If the costs don't look good to you, you can reject the contract and not do the show. Dan
	IP Logged

katnel Guest	Posted: 9/30/04 at 3:21pm
	Thank you for your very useful responses. Is there any way anyone could venture to guess roughly for me (even if it's a wild guess!) how much I might expect to pay per performance just in rights and royalties for Little Shop? (I realize that the score package is separate and another fairly hefty expenditure in itself.) I'd like to put that question out there to anyone who might have any idea whatsoever (because I don't--yet) before I fill out the actual online application. We may not do this play for another few years yet, depending on how much we find out that we can expect to pay. Thanks! :)
	IP Logged

Gaafa Celebrity Joined: 3/21/04 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1181	Posted: 10/01/04 at 4:25am
	I normally work on $AUD2 seat /performance [For the rights, script & score hire ect,.] & of course you may have to add a ?%? figure, that is normally charged on the gross box office sales - this I leave until I have worked out the combined ?bums ratio factor?. The factor depends on the type of musical & the punter appeal demographics. [Depending on the total box office receipts that are likely to be sold per performance.] If it is say a ratio of 3 con?s to every 2 full [$10 con & $15 full] it would be $60 for each 5 seats sold = $2400 per performance [100 seat house per show.] I hope I haven?t confused the situation? {I must find an easier & simpler way of explaining the ?bums ratio factor?? But at my age - this works for me!} Chookas Katnel
	Joe Western Gondawandaland turn right @ Perth. Hear the light & see the sound. Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"} May you always play to a full house}
	IP Logged

jtonner Star Joined: 2/02/04 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 56	Posted: 10/01/04 at 8:06am
	We produced Little Shop in 2002. For a 200 seat community theatre with $10.00 tickets, the royalties were $200.00 per performance. For our group, the average cost per performance runs from 170-200 per performance. This has been the average for Tams, MTI, French and R&H over the past four or five years. Of course it all depends on the size of your house and your ticket price. If you have a large theatre (over 400 seats) the price will go up, sometime substantially. If that happens, you can negotiate with the company and block off seats to lower your royalty. Just inform the company of how many you will sell, and you are contractually obligated to block off all extra seats. Since you are a new theatre group and may not have done a musical before, remember you will be responsible not only for rights and rental of materials, but also for a deposit. These deposits can run from $400.00 to $1000.00 so you will need enough money to cover this also. John
	John
	IP Logged

dougb Celebrity Joined: 3/30/04 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 148	Posted: 10/01/04 at 11:00am
	There was a thread on this topic on the AACT site several months back. As I remember, the royalty cost was 10% of the potential income (seats times ticket price) plus music rental (around $600 for a full blown score with orchestra) and a refundable deposit.
	IP Logged

Gaafa Celebrity Joined: 3/21/04 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1181	Posted: 10/02/04 at 1:38am
	{$60 for each 5 seats sold = $2400 per performance [100 seat house per show.] } As usual I did the math?s wrong! I?m as thick as 2 short planks at times - & just as dense! [ I think my math?s brain cells rolled out in the Ambulance, after my last stroke & their flaming ?lost property department? hasn?t found or returned them yet!!!] What it should have been was $1200 per performance. I only ever work on 25% of the total full occupancy for the season, as the provisional budget for the show! So I have an idea if it would be viable &/or what I need to do to increase or support the bottom line amount - before doing the show! Chookas
	Joe Western Gondawandaland turn right @ Perth. Hear the light & see the sound. Toi Toi Toi Chookas {{"chook [chicken] it is"} May you always play to a full house}
	IP Logged

Topic: Q about cost of producing a musical( Topic Closed)