Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board: Gobo question

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gaftpres
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Topic: Gobo question
Posted: 4/25/08 at 4:37pm

I am hoping someone with a bit more knowledge then me can help me with this. I am planning on using 3 gobos in an upcoming production. Do I need to use a gobo projector or can I use a few of my ellipsoidals(lekos) to project the gobo image? Two will be projected on the curtain prior to the show and the last will be a barbed wire gobo to be projected on my actors in the last scene. I plan on playing with these ideas over the summer before next semester and having a solution prior to the beginning of production. Thanks for whatever input you can give me. Oh the ellipsoidals I plan on using are hung overhead and approximately 50 ft from the stage. I think that information will be necessary, but ask away if you have any other questions. Thanks

Old volunteers never die, they just get recycled!

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JoeMc
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Posted: 4/25/08 at 11:08pm

Here are a couple sites that may help you;-

Gobo visualiser;-

http://design.cablepick.com/gobo

Image [gobo] 'Fergos';-

http://www.seleconlight.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=159&Itemid=211

Profiles [hard edge spots/Ellipsoidal] are ideal to project images on stage from a Gobo. [Or 'BOGO' in the theatrical parlance 'Black Out GO! Instead of the Film method of the term used "Go Black Out' - But as theatre adopted from film, who am I to knock tradition?]

However when using OBO's you will need to adjust your lighting colour wash to accommodate them visually. Or they will Wash out.

So you will need to play around a bit to find the right levels for your space.

Projecting from the 'X' [overhead] position in effect will place a nice image on the deck, which is great on an empty space, until the 'warm props get in the way & cast shadows, which will happen from the 'Y' [Front of house] position on to the set anyway.

Projecting on to the House 'Rag' is effective & some what easier, without a curtain warmer wash that is.

Also using a lamp from the 'Z' [floor] position can look great, especial for dance numbers. However the Profile needs to mounted on a 'turtle' [floor stand] & this could cause other safety problems.

Also to project 'Barbed wire' on to the cast it may need a wide angle zoom spot, which has two lenses, that you can tweak to give a sharper image. You can get a great effect from using fret work metal grilling, as the gobo. Which gives a rainbow helios to the edge of the image, moving one of the lenses forward or back.

Is this for a play or musical?

Further using a break up cover over the lens of a FOH ['Y'] Fresnel [Soft edge] can give a good effect as well!

I don't know if this helps or not?

[western] Gondawandaland
"Hear the light & see the sound!
TOI TOI CHOOKAS
{may you always play to a full house!}

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bmiller025
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Joined: 10/06/05
Location: United States
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Posts: 82

Posted: 4/26/08 at 12:20am

You certainly can use ellipsoidal spotlights to project gobo patterns. You didn't mention what sort of ellipsoidal spotlights you have available for this purpose. In addition to the actual gobo, you will need a holder that is specific to the kind of spotlight you intend to use. There are different sizes of gobos sold in the United States, and you need to be careful to purchase the correct size.

These days, the most common size gobos are size "A," which work well with ETC Source 4 and other lights. Size "A" gobos also can be used in older lights, and other modern lights as well, but it is important to make sure that that size will work best in the template holder. Many older lights, such as 6" lekos, use the smaller "B" size.

To get the best results, it is important that the light is properly bench-focused, and that the ellipsoidal mirror inside the light is in good shape.

Most theatrical supply houses will have a large selection of gobo patterns available for sale. Major manufacturers in the U.S. include Rosco, Lee, Great American, and Apollo. Apollo is also the leading player in the custom gobo business. Each of these manufacturers have huge catalogs of their patterns, to help you decide which gobos will work best.

There are many different types of gobos. Steel ones are the most inexpensive and common. Glass gobos often can be used to project a photographic image. Glass gobos also can project color.

Good luck!

Brian

http://members.aol.com/bmiller025/BrianDesign.htm

http://www.brianmiller.biz/BrianDesign.htm

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JoeMc
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Joined: 3/13/06
Location: Australia
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Posted: 4/26/08 at 7:19am

Brian is right on g'donya!

Here are gobo holder size & code listingfor the types of Profiles available;-

A size gobos [100mm dia, 75mm max image dia]

B size gobos [86mm dia, 64.5mm max image dia]

M size gobos [65.5mm dia, 49.5mm max image dia]

[From 'Blueroom WIKI']

Lamp Gate Lens Lens

Globe gobo

PROFILE [Ellipsoidal] Lantern cross section.

GH01 (A size gobos)
- CCT Silhouette
- CCT Freedom profile
GH03 (B size gobos)
- CCT Silhouette
GH06 (B size gobos)
GH07 (A size gobos)
- Strand Cadenza profile
- Strand Solo profile
GH08 (B size gobos)
GH15 (M size gobos)
- CCT Minuette profile
- Zero 88 Vision
GH33 (M size Gobos)
GH40 (A size gobos)
GH46 (M size gobos)
- Strand Optique
GH56 (B size glass gobos)
- ETC Source 4 Profile
- ETC Source 4 Zoom
GH59 (B size gobos)
- ETC Source 4 Profile
- ETC Source 4 Zoom
GH61 (A size gobos)
- ETC Source 4 Profile
- ETC Source 4 Zoom
GH62 (A size glass gobos)
- ETC Source 4 Profile
- ETC Source 4 Zoom
GH63 (M size gobos)
- ETC Source 4 Junior
Manufacturer specific holders:
- Selecon Acclaim profile (M size gobos)
- Selecon Pacific profile (not 12-28) (A size gobos)
- Selecon Pacific profile (12-28 only) (M size gobos)
Gobo rotator;-
http://www.internetapollo.com/Products/View/1862.aspx

Of course you can make your own holder to suit the Lantern, however it easier just to buy them.

{also it is difficult to use a gobo without a holder, as the gobo can slip or fall into the gate aperture & attempting to adjust them, while the lantern is on without a holder is a drama! As they get bleeding hot 'n heavy,

using bare fingers & you will drop them flaming quickly!

Further you can guarantee it will happen during the show.

Besides the use of GOBO Rotators you can use a moving mirror attachment on the front of the lantern. As is shown on the Selecon Pacific site.

You could of course make up your own gobo's from aluminium fiol or steel shim material, however Ali burns fairly quickly & you will loose the edge of the image eventually.

I managed to reuse a heap of printers offset plates, years ago. Now of course offset plates are actually paper these days. But if you can find some old used alloy foil offset plates all the better.

Draw up your design or do a print off a computer on paper. Then place on the offset plate, with a piece of carbon paper between the paper & plate.

Using either a ball point pen or stylus, draw over the image on the paper.

This will give a carbon copy onto the offset plate.

Cut the image out using a craft knife or scalpel. You have a gobo!

However it is easier with the Pacific Lantern, using over head projection mylar & printing it from a computer, following the 'Fergo' method. As very little if any heat is transmitted by the light source bubble [globe] in the lantern.

[western] Gondawandaland
"Hear the light & see the sound!
TOI TOI CHOOKAS
{may you always play to a full house!}

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gaftpres
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Joined: 11/14/07
Location: United States
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Posts: 80

Posted: 4/27/08 at 11:08am

I knew it would be great information received on here. Thanks to all of you. The play I am doing is The Diary of Anne Frank it is newly adapted by Wendy Kesselman. I want to use the gobos for a swastika and Star of David to be on the curtain when the house lights go off and he Frank family enters in front of the curtain, simulating their walk to the Annex on the street. I also plan on havin German soldiers entering down the aisles and crossing in front of the curtain aka street. The end has Anne in voice over reading from her entry in the diary and I want to have the barbed wired across her and several children simulating the concentration camp. Thanks again for the information, I will experiment and as it goes in theatre.......make it work.

Old volunteers never die, they just get recycled!

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JoeMc
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Joined: 3/13/06
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 832

Posted: 4/28/08 at 9:07pm

I don't know that this will help?

But I just came across this GOBO attachment for a small 'MR16' parcan;-

http://www.terralec.co.uk/par_cans/gobo_holder_for_can16/17176_p.html

But it is something to keep in mind!

{One thing, you may notice - the gobo image on this lantern in the pic, would actually project the image upside down, if operated in this configuration!}

[western] Gondawandaland
"Hear the light & see the sound!
TOI TOI CHOOKAS
{may you always play to a full house!}

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gaftpres
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Joined: 11/14/07
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 80

Posted: 11/07/08 at 12:56pm

The show has opened and is truly a success. I would recommend this version of Anne Frank to all if you are looking for a drama. "The Diary of Anne Frank" by Wendy Kesselman. A great drama.......lots of transitions done with lighting, sounds a deep version of the true terror they lived with.

Old volunteers never die, they just get recycled!

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gaftpres
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Joined: 11/14/07
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 80

Posted: 11/07/08 at 12:57pm

Oh and by the way the gobos work excellent! Thanks again for all the input.

Old volunteers never die, they just get recycled!

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Lights and Sound
Community Theater Green Room Discussion Board :Producing Theater :Lights and Sound

Author	Message
gaftpres Star Joined: 11/14/07 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 80	Topic: Gobo question Posted: 4/25/08 at 4:37pm
	I am hoping someone with a bit more knowledge then me can help me with this. I am planning on using 3 gobos in an upcoming production. Do I need to use a gobo projector or can I use a few of my ellipsoidals(lekos) to project the gobo image? Two will be projected on the curtain prior to the show and the last will be a barbed wire gobo to be projected on my actors in the last scene. I plan on playing with these ideas over the summer before next semester and having a solution prior to the beginning of production. Thanks for whatever input you can give me. Oh the ellipsoidals I plan on using are hung overhead and approximately 50 ft from the stage. I think that information will be necessary, but ask away if you have any other questions. Thanks
	Old volunteers never die, they just get recycled!

	IP Logged

JoeMc Celebrity Joined: 3/13/06 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 832	Posted: 4/25/08 at 11:08pm
	Here are a couple sites that may help you;- Gobo visualiser;- http://design.cablepick.com/gobo Image [gobo] 'Fergos';- http://www.seleconlight.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=159&Itemid=211 Profiles [hard edge spots/Ellipsoidal] are ideal to project images on stage from a Gobo. [Or 'BOGO' in the theatrical parlance 'Black Out GO! Instead of the Film method of the term used "Go Black Out' - But as theatre adopted from film, who am I to knock tradition?] However when using OBO's you will need to adjust your lighting colour wash to accommodate them visually. Or they will Wash out. So you will need to play around a bit to find the right levels for your space. Projecting from the 'X' [overhead] position in effect will place a nice image on the deck, which is great on an empty space, until the 'warm props get in the way & cast shadows, which will happen from the 'Y' [Front of house] position on to the set anyway. Projecting on to the House 'Rag' is effective & some what easier, without a curtain warmer wash that is. Also using a lamp from the 'Z' [floor] position can look great, especial for dance numbers. However the Profile needs to mounted on a 'turtle' [floor stand] & this could cause other safety problems. Also to project 'Barbed wire' on to the cast it may need a wide angle zoom spot, which has two lenses, that you can tweak to give a sharper image. You can get a great effect from using fret work metal grilling, as the gobo. Which gives a rainbow helios to the edge of the image, moving one of the lenses forward or back. Is this for a play or musical? Further using a break up cover over the lens of a FOH ['Y'] Fresnel [Soft edge] can give a good effect as well! I don't know if this helps or not?
	[western] Gondawandaland "Hear the light & see the sound! TOI TOI CHOOKAS {may you always play to a full house!}
	IP Logged

bmiller025 Star Joined: 10/06/05 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 82	Posted: 4/26/08 at 12:20am
	You certainly can use ellipsoidal spotlights to project gobo patterns. You didn't mention what sort of ellipsoidal spotlights you have available for this purpose. In addition to the actual gobo, you will need a holder that is specific to the kind of spotlight you intend to use. There are different sizes of gobos sold in the United States, and you need to be careful to purchase the correct size. These days, the most common size gobos are size "A," which work well with ETC Source 4 and other lights. Size "A" gobos also can be used in older lights, and other modern lights as well, but it is important to make sure that that size will work best in the template holder. Many older lights, such as 6" lekos, use the smaller "B" size. To get the best results, it is important that the light is properly bench-focused, and that the ellipsoidal mirror inside the light is in good shape. Most theatrical supply houses will have a large selection of gobo patterns available for sale. Major manufacturers in the U.S. include Rosco, Lee, Great American, and Apollo. Apollo is also the leading player in the custom gobo business. Each of these manufacturers have huge catalogs of their patterns, to help you decide which gobos will work best. There are many different types of gobos. Steel ones are the most inexpensive and common. Glass gobos often can be used to project a photographic image. Glass gobos also can project color. Good luck! Brian http://members.aol.com/bmiller025/BrianDesign.htm
	http://www.brianmiller.biz/BrianDesign.htm
	IP Logged

JoeMc Celebrity Joined: 3/13/06 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 832	Posted: 4/26/08 at 7:19am
	Brian is right on g'donya! Here are gobo holder size & code listingfor the types of Profiles available;- A size gobos [100mm dia, 75mm max image dia] B size gobos [86mm dia, 64.5mm max image dia] M size gobos [65.5mm dia, 49.5mm max image dia] [From 'Blueroom WIKI'] Lamp Gate Lens Lens Globe gobo PROFILE [Ellipsoidal] Lantern cross section. GH01 (A size gobos) CCT Silhouette CCT Freedom profile GH03 (B size gobos) CCT Silhouette GH06 (B size gobos) Strand Prelude profile Strand Cantata profile Strand Brio Strand SL GH07 (A size gobos) Strand Cadenza profile Strand Solo profile GH08 (B size gobos) Strand Quartet profile Strand Patt 23 Strand Minim profile GH15 (M size gobos) CCT Minuette profile Zero 88 Vision GH33 (M size Gobos) Strand Quartet profile Strand Patt 23 Strand Minim profile GH40 (A size gobos) Strand Patt 263 Strand Patt 264 Strand T-spot Strand Harmony profile GH46 (M size gobos) Strand Optique GH56 (B size glass gobos) ETC Source 4 Profile ETC Source 4 Zoom GH59 (B size gobos) ETC Source 4 Profile ETC Source 4 Zoom GH61 (A size gobos) ETC Source 4 Profile ETC Source 4 Zoom GH62 (A size glass gobos) ETC Source 4 Profile ETC Source 4 Zoom GH63 (M size gobos) ETC Source 4 Junior Manufacturer specific holders: Selecon Acclaim profile (M size gobos) Selecon Pacific profile (not 12-28) (A size gobos) Selecon Pacific profile (12-28 only) (M size gobos) Gobo rotator;- http://www.internetapollo.com/Products/View/1862.aspx Of course you can make your own holder to suit the Lantern, however it easier just to buy them. {also it is difficult to use a gobo without a holder, as the gobo can slip or fall into the gate aperture & attempting to adjust them, while the lantern is on without a holder is a drama! As they get bleeding hot 'n heavy, using bare fingers & you will drop them flaming quickly! Further you can guarantee it will happen during the show. Besides the use of GOBO Rotators you can use a moving mirror attachment on the front of the lantern. As is shown on the Selecon Pacific site. You could of course make up your own gobo's from aluminium fiol or steel shim material, however Ali burns fairly quickly & you will loose the edge of the image eventually. I managed to reuse a heap of printers offset plates, years ago. Now of course offset plates are actually paper these days. But if you can find some old used alloy foil offset plates all the better. Draw up your design or do a print off a computer on paper. Then place on the offset plate, with a piece of carbon paper between the paper & plate. Using either a ball point pen or stylus, draw over the image on the paper. This will give a carbon copy onto the offset plate. Cut the image out using a craft knife or scalpel. You have a gobo! However it is easier with the Pacific Lantern, using over head projection mylar & printing it from a computer, following the 'Fergo' method. As very little if any heat is transmitted by the light source bubble [globe] in the lantern.
	[western] Gondawandaland "Hear the light & see the sound! TOI TOI CHOOKAS {may you always play to a full house!}
	IP Logged

gaftpres Star Joined: 11/14/07 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 80	Posted: 4/27/08 at 11:08am
	I knew it would be great information received on here. Thanks to all of you. The play I am doing is The Diary of Anne Frank it is newly adapted by Wendy Kesselman. I want to use the gobos for a swastika and Star of David to be on the curtain when the house lights go off and he Frank family enters in front of the curtain, simulating their walk to the Annex on the street. I also plan on havin German soldiers entering down the aisles and crossing in front of the curtain aka street. The end has Anne in voice over reading from her entry in the diary and I want to have the barbed wired across her and several children simulating the concentration camp. Thanks again for the information, I will experiment and as it goes in theatre.......make it work.
	Old volunteers never die, they just get recycled!
	IP Logged

JoeMc Celebrity Joined: 3/13/06 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 832	Posted: 4/28/08 at 9:07pm
	I don't know that this will help? But I just came across this GOBO attachment for a small 'MR16' parcan;- http://www.terralec.co.uk/par_cans/gobo_holder_for_can16/17176_p.html But it is something to keep in mind! {One thing, you may notice - the gobo image on this lantern in the pic, would actually project the image upside down, if operated in this configuration!}
	[western] Gondawandaland "Hear the light & see the sound! TOI TOI CHOOKAS {may you always play to a full house!}
	IP Logged

gaftpres Star Joined: 11/14/07 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 80	Posted: 11/07/08 at 12:56pm
	The show has opened and is truly a success. I would recommend this version of Anne Frank to all if you are looking for a drama. "The Diary of Anne Frank" by Wendy Kesselman. A great drama.......lots of transitions done with lighting, sounds a deep version of the true terror they lived with.
	Old volunteers never die, they just get recycled!
	IP Logged

gaftpres Star Joined: 11/14/07 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 80	Posted: 11/07/08 at 12:57pm
	Oh and by the way the gobos work excellent! Thanks again for all the input.
	Old volunteers never die, they just get recycled!
	IP Logged

Topic: Gobo question( Topic Closed)